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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 12th Jan 2019, 09:22
  #2721 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to sound harsh BUT: Brits voted for the brexit so we Europeans expect you also to get out. No need to reverse that process anymore. That would be a “again ish thing they would get away with it”. Pure getting a monkey business now.

So...get it done, get out. A lot of europeans are waiting for that.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 09:48
  #2722 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dboy View Post
Sorry to sound harsh BUT: Brits voted for the brexit so we Europeans expect you also to get out. No need to reverse that process anymore. That would be a “again ish thing they would get away with it”. Pure getting a monkey business now.

So...get it done, get out. A lot of europeans are waiting for that.
I think that's very true; in many circles, "get out, and let us get on". And I don't blame them one iota for that.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 09:54
  #2723 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yotty View Post
Mac, Russia is a country in Europe, should she be a part of the EU?
May I answer that?
If Russia made the radical changes necessary to qualify for membership of the EU, that would be a fantastic achievement with world changing consequences.
It would then be up to the 27 member countries to decide whether to accept it in.
Won't ever happen of course, but what an idea!
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 09:56
  #2724 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
LISBON — Portugal’s government on Friday laid out proposals to protect rights of British citizens living in the country if there’s a no-deal Brexit
A very limited subset of those rights, I think - I don't think Portugal has any way of preserving those people's freedom to move on to their next job in Spain or Poland as they are able to do now.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 10:46
  #2725 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I think that's very true; in many circles, "get out, and let us get on". And I don't blame them one iota for that.
I am sure they will enjoy the tax hikes too!
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 10:50
  #2726 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
A very limited subset of those rights, I think - I don't think Portugal has any way of preserving those people's freedom to move on to their next job in Spain or Poland as they are able to do now.
“The British are welcome in Portugal as residents, as tourists, as investors, as students. We hope they will continue to come and stay in Portugal,” Cabrita said."

The remainder [hohoho] will fall in line.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 13:16
  #2727 (permalink)  
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I have been in a situation a couple of times where we have had a cliff -edge moment but we didn't. At the stroke of midnight the game changed; we didn't have a rule book for the new game.

We just carried on as before applying most of the old rules. Soon some rules were adapted, some rules were maintained unchanged, some old rules were either irrelevant or ignored. Over time new rules were created, obsolete rules were abandoned, and some adapted rules were adopted.

Why would we immediately abandon good H&S rules or working practices? Things like the minimum wage are British anyway. What reason is there for an emergency budget, apart from the previous Chancellor's project fear? Freed from Brussels, the Government could even change the VAT rate on some products below the EU floor of 15%.

Goods presenting at Dover do not have to suffer inbound delays, that is entirely under our control. Are all the goods entering UK on 29th March suddenly becoming contraband on the 30th? There is no difference at Dover from the open border from Ireland.

If the Manston lorry park becomes full from outbound traffic delayed at Calais or Sandgate that is the EU, not us.

In short, lots of waffle in Parliament is about what ifs.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 13:27
  #2728 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Why would we immediately abandon good H&S rules or working practices?
It may not be "immediate", as in 30th March. But it will have to happen sooner or later (along with environmental standards, which you don't mention) in order to get the US trade deal. And of course this won't be held back by any tedious bureaucratic or democratic nonsense, as this stuff can just be signed off by a minister - that's precisely what the Henry VIII powers are for.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 14:05
  #2729 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
...Goods presenting at Dover do not have to suffer inbound delays, that is entirely under our control....
That is assuming they do not have to suffer outbound delays on the othet side of La Manche. Yellow jacket protesters have already caused disruptions at ferry ports. That is not entirely under UK control.
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 16:36
  #2730 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sfm818 View Post
That is assuming they do not have to suffer outbound delays on the othet side of La Manche. Yellow jacket protesters have already caused disruptions at ferry ports. That is not entirely under UK control.
True, but what is different from being in the EU or not as the do it anyway?
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 16:40
  #2731 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
It may not be "immediate", as in 30th March. But it will have to happen sooner or later (along with environmental standards, which you don't mention)
My point entirely - no cliff edge but a controlled change of conditions. I didn't mention environmental standards as I believe our politicos who say we are a world leader (you stupid biy, Pike).
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 17:24
  #2732 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I have been in a situation a couple of times where we have had a cliff -edge moment but we didn't. At the stroke of midnight the game changed; we didn't have a rule book for the new game.

We just carried on as before applying most of the old rules. Soon some rules were adapted, some rules were maintained unchanged, some old rules were either irrelevant or ignored. Over time new rules were created, obsolete rules were abandoned, and some adapted rules were adopted.

Why would we immediately abandon good H&S rules or working practices? Things like the minimum wage are British anyway. What reason is there for an emergency budget, apart from the previous Chancellor's project fear? Freed from Brussels, the Government could even change the VAT rate on some products below the EU floor of 15%.

Goods presenting at Dover do not have to suffer inbound delays, that is entirely under our control. Are all the goods entering UK on 29th March suddenly becoming contraband on the 30th? There is no difference at Dover from the open border from Ireland.

If the Manston lorry park becomes full from outbound traffic delayed at Calais or Sandgate that is the EU, not us.

In short, lots of waffle in Parliament is about what ifs.
Unfortunately, you have led a rather sanitised working life. In the real world, there are numerous employers / "management " who currently even now only pay lip service to H n S and working practices, The issue of working practices in particular, or should that be terms and conditions, is highly likely to be seriously affected once we leave the EU and become reliant on UK law to support grievances and working conditions.

As for nothing much changing at Dover, despite the farce at Manston last week, there is more than growing concern as to the logistical nightmares that will ensue, not simply regarding transportation, but also the supply chain manufacturers and distributors. Why else do you think, and please, don't recourse to the now out dated "project fear " mantra because many of the concerns are based on tangible evidence and analysis, even this lethargic Gov't has suddenly decided to inform the electorate of contingency planning.

As for Hammond, you may recall he mentioned in his last budget something about another budget being required should no deal be reached....he also mentioned something about lower income streams.

Anyway, have a look at this .....you may recall it ?.....and note in particular the reference to " amend, repeal and improve ".......and guess what, non of those criteria will be beneficial for millions of workers in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39266723
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 18:38
  #2733 (permalink)  
 
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We should stall 'till after the euro elections, who knows what a "regime change" might achieve? https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...ondon-12012019

Last edited by yotty; 12th Jan 2019 at 19:02.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 05:53
  #2734 (permalink)  
 
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“...seriously affected ..once we leave EU”. You’re going to have to explain that one Krystal. The EU have no practical involvement in enforcement of such matters.

What stood out from the recent London demo was how little mention of Brexit there was. Most of the placards were standard leftie “Tories out” stuff. McDonnell spoke at length on general election and austerity-barely mentioning Brexit
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 06:47
  #2735 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if the reason for yesterday's demo in London producing little mention of Brexit was because it was an anti austerity demo? A different agenda and not related to Brexit at the outset.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 08:19
  #2736 (permalink)  
 
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Corbyn is paying a high risk game. If he were to succeed in his attempt to get a GE the outcome is far from certain. A poll putting the hypothesis of an election where Labour supported Brexit found that the party dropped a huge 14% in the polling compared to the Tories 4%. More significantly almost all the loss of support accrues to the LD's as the sole Remain supporting party.

​​​​​​​Once the LD's move into the 20's then the "wasted vote" deterrent disappears as people begin to believe that they could actually win seats. Added to this that Vince Cable has relatively clean hands having not supported the coalition and it is projected that Labour could easily drop to 150 seats. The outcome of a GE then becomes very volatile with Labour and Tory seats becoming equally vulnerable to LD assault. Amazing to think that when Cameron won in 2015 I thought that we were in for five boring years!
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 08:24
  #2737 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I wonder if the reason for yesterday's demo in London producing little mention of Brexit was because it was an anti austerity demo? A different agenda and not related to Brexit at the outset.
Any time there is an important issue at stake you may be sure the usual suspects will be on the streets for a bit of aggro. The actual issue is not important to them.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 08:33
  #2738 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst this appears very bad news potentially for Labour it's not all good news for the Tories. 88 of the top hundred target LD seats are held by them. A collapse of the Labour vote would inevitably hand Tory held seats to the LD's and of course constituencies like these may well have Labour voters who are more likely to defect in that direction than those in more traditional Labour seats.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 08:58
  #2739 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I wonder if the reason for yesterday's demo in London producing little mention of Brexit was because it was an anti austerity demo? A different agenda and not related to Brexit at the outset.
Actually, it may have a great deal to do with the fact that the numerous other significant issues in UK politics have now been totally subsumed by the issue of Brexit...which in one sense is convenient for Treeza as it means the electorate aren't going to be overly aware...apart from those poor souls who are directly affected that is. Even Amber has realised that UC is such a potential political time bomb she's doing her best to fudge matters over until she's forced to explain in detail why so many are adversely affected.

Despite Treeza gushing on about the "end of austerity " this isn't actually the case.

However, it appears desperate times induces desperate measures. Thus, rather than leave matters to professionals involved in various Dept's and sectors, who better to add their unrivalled expertise in ensuring a plan looks and sounds great...on paper.....but then, strangely starts to unravel when implemented.

So a rousing JB cheer for another firm favourite......the military !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-border-chaos
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 09:05
  #2740 (permalink)  
 
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In the not too distant future, in a land far, far away - three weary travellers present their blue passports for inspection.

Border Guard:
"Where were you born and what is your identity"

Irishman:
"I was born on the Island of Ireland, but identify as a European"

Scotsman:
"I was born in the Kingdom of Scotland, but identify as a European"

Englishman:
" I identify as a Briton, but was born stupid - let's take back control"

Last edited by sfm818; 13th Jan 2019 at 09:17.
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