UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: North of Watford Gap
Posts: 23
We also know vote leave used the same crooked data firms to target voters as Leave.Eu. We also know Vote Leave gave Darren Grimes (Who?) £625k a few days before the referendum but in actual fact sent that cash directly to Aggregate IQ, breaching spending rules in the process. However, the main point is despite all that in the public domain, it does not follow in logic that If Putin bought the leave vote, the leave campaign automatically wins the referendum.
Putin must be a genius then to have won against all that.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Originally Posted by Danny G
Funny that you cant prove that Putin bought the election then isnt it. Do you deny that remain spent more overall on the referendum than leave? Did you think it unfair that every main political party campaigned for remain? Do you think it unfair thar remain used this to get influential figures like the President of the USA, the IMF and quite a few others to back their campaign.
Putin must be a genius then to have won against all that.
Putin must be a genius then to have won against all that.
It is a fair guess that Russia is the source of his funds. It's well known those funds were deployed to mine data & target swing voters. Swing voters win referendums, the referendum was won by 3.8% Can you see yet why this is a difficult issue for leave supporters? It walks like a duck, sounds like a duck & quacks like a duck and it's still unfolding. The story is far from told. But if the story turns out as I have described it, then it would be (and I'm being nice here) a bit of a shame if leave changed the course of British history based on criminal theft & foreign money.
Finally, I would go further & suggest that if the knee jerk response to lengthy illustrations of circumstantial prima facie Russian involvement in the United Kingdom's democratic process is anything other than the expression of horror and please tell me more, then where exactly does ones loyalties as a subject of Her Majesty lie? Can you in those circumstances describe yourself as a patriotic Englishman/woman? Since you can pick your friends, I would suggest it's an issue you should consider carefully. I see people every day on the leave side who are so blinded by irrational hatred of Europe that they are prepared to overlook practically anything from criminal activity to economic privations in pursuit of their agenda & that is not just unreasonable, it's frightening.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: North of Watford Gap
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by rogerg
I don't know any brexiteers who hate Europe, its the EU they are not keen on.
We lost, get over it and move on there are far more important things going on in this country at the moment.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,126
There are no reasons whatever for not havign a second referendum
the first was involved with election fraud-
Possible Russian involvement
No one on either side knew a fraction as much about the Eu as they do now
We have term limited parliaments and all kinds of things to prevent a one vote changes everything for ever scenario -the only reason there is not a second referendum is that the quitters know they will lose otherwise they would have a second vote to shut up all the complaining and undermining which will never cease whatever happens.
And what about the poster who wrote that if the Russians were involved so would Corbyn and the Labour party - its 2019 the Russians are not communists anymore, if anything they are to the right of the Tory Right,
All the stayers want is for Britain to thrive in a complicated dangerous world - most leavers want the same but the people orchestrating leave want a very different arrangement-they want the restoration of wealth and privileged no nasty enquiries into rich people with their money in Bermuda , no complex environmental protection no customer protection legislation, no employment rights to restore it to the days when it was great brritain where 2% of people lived in immense luxury and the rest in squalor.
And if people think staying is unpatriotic remember 'My country right or wrong' gets you Hitler or maybe these days Putin.
the first was involved with election fraud-
Possible Russian involvement
No one on either side knew a fraction as much about the Eu as they do now
We have term limited parliaments and all kinds of things to prevent a one vote changes everything for ever scenario -the only reason there is not a second referendum is that the quitters know they will lose otherwise they would have a second vote to shut up all the complaining and undermining which will never cease whatever happens.
And what about the poster who wrote that if the Russians were involved so would Corbyn and the Labour party - its 2019 the Russians are not communists anymore, if anything they are to the right of the Tory Right,
All the stayers want is for Britain to thrive in a complicated dangerous world - most leavers want the same but the people orchestrating leave want a very different arrangement-they want the restoration of wealth and privileged no nasty enquiries into rich people with their money in Bermuda , no complex environmental protection no customer protection legislation, no employment rights to restore it to the days when it was great brritain where 2% of people lived in immense luxury and the rest in squalor.
And if people think staying is unpatriotic remember 'My country right or wrong' gets you Hitler or maybe these days Putin.
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 919
For those who feel Anna Soubry should be forced to wear sackcloth and ashes, "how dare she be a credit to politics ! ", here's one of the charming examples of extreme right wing putrescence she's had to contend with.
Feel free to explain why, therefore, she continues to attract unwarranted condemnation when, in fact, she's conducted herself with remarkable composure whilst also retaining her principles.
Of course, there may well be those who tacitly agree with this glowing example of patriotic fervour's sentiments, but clearly, we will never be privy to their thoughts.....other than by reading between the less than subtle lines on many posts that is.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...emoved-from-uk
Feel free to explain why, therefore, she continues to attract unwarranted condemnation when, in fact, she's conducted herself with remarkable composure whilst also retaining her principles.
Of course, there may well be those who tacitly agree with this glowing example of patriotic fervour's sentiments, but clearly, we will never be privy to their thoughts.....other than by reading between the less than subtle lines on many posts that is.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...emoved-from-uk
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Looking for the signals square at LHR
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by tescoapp
But even if it is illegal under UK law after he 29th of March it doesn't matter anyway because the UK will be default exit anyway.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,894
Nice to hear Krystal is upset at Anna Soubry being called a fascist. Pity he’s never been able to condemn Momentum for using identical language and intimidation against pretty much anyone who disagrees with them.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: North of Watford Gap
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by pax britanica
There are no reasons whatever for not havign a second referendum
the first was involved with election fraud-
Possible Russian involvement
No one on either side knew a fraction as much about the Eu as they do now
We have term limited parliaments and all kinds of things to prevent a one vote changes everything for ever scenario -the only reason there is not a second referendum is that the quitters know they will lose otherwise they would have a second vote to shut up all the complaining and undermining which will never cease whatever happens.
And what about the poster who wrote that if the Russians were involved so would Corbyn and the Labour party - its 2019 the Russians are not communists anymore, if anything they are to the right of the Tory Right,
All the stayers want is for Britain to thrive in a complicated dangerous world - most leavers want the same but the people orchestrating leave want a very different arrangement-they want the restoration of wealth and privileged no nasty enquiries into rich people with their money in Bermuda , no complex environmental protection no customer protection legislation, no employment rights to restore it to the days when it was great brritain where 2% of people lived in immense luxury and the rest in squalor.
And if people think staying is unpatriotic remember 'My country right or wrong' gets you Hitler or maybe these days Putin.
the first was involved with election fraud-
Possible Russian involvement
No one on either side knew a fraction as much about the Eu as they do now
We have term limited parliaments and all kinds of things to prevent a one vote changes everything for ever scenario -the only reason there is not a second referendum is that the quitters know they will lose otherwise they would have a second vote to shut up all the complaining and undermining which will never cease whatever happens.
And what about the poster who wrote that if the Russians were involved so would Corbyn and the Labour party - its 2019 the Russians are not communists anymore, if anything they are to the right of the Tory Right,
All the stayers want is for Britain to thrive in a complicated dangerous world - most leavers want the same but the people orchestrating leave want a very different arrangement-they want the restoration of wealth and privileged no nasty enquiries into rich people with their money in Bermuda , no complex environmental protection no customer protection legislation, no employment rights to restore it to the days when it was great brritain where 2% of people lived in immense luxury and the rest in squalor.
And if people think staying is unpatriotic remember 'My country right or wrong' gets you Hitler or maybe these days Putin.
Do you see the more you protest that it wasnt fair because this or that MAY have happened without providing any evidence to back it up the more remainers are seen as bad losers. If you want to be a part of the EU then thats fine but follow democratic process and campaign to rejoin after we have left. If things are as you claim then we should be full members within 5 years or so with the Euro and Schengin as well. There is nothing to stop remainers getting behind a political party winning an election and then enacting the manifesto.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,416
Originally Posted by Exrigger
But surely the MPs have no vote on a default exit (as called No Deal) under Article 50, it states if there is no deal the UK leaves and by default that means trading transfers to WTO rules, the only people who can change that is the EU27 and if they don't want to, the UK can do nothing to alter that no matter how much people state they are against that outcome
This means that the "default no deal crash out" is not so much a default - it will happen only if there is a decision by our politicians not to revoke A50.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by Danny G
I agree. I voted remain and am ashamed at the extent that some of my fellow remainers are going to in their attempt to deny they lost. Its always someone elses fault. Its either leavers are thick, racist they hate Europe or Putin bought it.
We lost, get over it and move on there are far more important things going on in this country at the moment.
We lost, get over it and move on there are far more important things going on in this country at the moment.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 49
Posts: 785
Possible Russian involvement
I do know that the incumbent UK Government (at least in my opinion) is the worst in living memory by far, even beating Dave & Co... and that is no mean feat, the way they have handled this borders on criminal negligence - it seems the people are mere pawns in political survival games.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 67
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat
I think you may have missed the CJEU ruling at the back end of last year which is that the UK can unilaterally revoke the article 50 notification and remain a member of the EU, and that there's absolutely nothing at all whatsoever that the EU27 can do to stop us.
This means that the "default no deal crash out" is not so much a default - it will happen only if there is a decision by our politicians not to revoke A50.
This means that the "default no deal crash out" is not so much a default - it will happen only if there is a decision by our politicians not to revoke A50.
On 10 December 2018, the CJEU itself ruled and, in contrast to the Advocate General, found that unilateral revocation of Article 50 TEU was a sovereign right for any Member State to pursue without any conditions attached, beyond the decision to revoke notification needing to follow a ‘democratic process’ that satisfied national constitutional requirements (as notifying under Article 50 TEU also does) and that the revocation would have to be made before a concluded withdrawal agreement had entered into force or (if there was no agreement) before the Article 50 negotiating period had expired (whether extended by unanimous European Council agreement or not). It further stressed that revocation would result in the Member State remaining an EU Member State on identical terms – meaning that for the UK, a decision to revoke Article 50 TEU would not result in the loss of the UK’s various opt-outs or the budget ‘rebate’ negotiated by the Thatcher government.
However, would there be time to comply with the first bold text above by the end of March, and following with the second bold text above: if May's deal is signed off, we won't be able to revoke article 50, and if we don't get her deal signed off and do not fulfil national constitutional requirements by the end of March we also will be too late.
I also note the oft quoted, but not in earlier transcripts, bit about not losing out if we do revoke Art 50; underlined text.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: North of Watford Gap
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Effluent Man
I really find that quite hard to believe. You don't come across as someone who voted Remain. That just defies logic that you would switch in that direction with all that has occurred. I didn't vote and only came to Remain when it became clear just what the financial penalties came with quitting. The thought processes that might make someone move in the other direction just defy analysis.
Better to do it properly play the long game and win in the end.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 778
Originally Posted by flash8
It's surprising how often this pops up only by losing sides and after the event with no evidence. I didn't vote so have no axe to bear (couldn't really care either way no matter how hard I try) but anyone who seriously believes that Russia somehow influenced the result, well that is quite preposterous. Actually I am not even sure Brexit would be in long-term Russian interests anyhow... six of one, half a dozen of the other.
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,416
Originally Posted by Exrigger
However, would there be time to comply with the first bold text above by the end of March
We don't yet know, until the Scottish case completes, whether the necessary process is a vote in parliament, or whether May can just sign a letter herself, or whether it would need to be an order in council, but assuming that the civil servants are not completely incompetent there will already be drafts of all three on file ready and waiting. Any or all of these processes could take place on March 29th.
