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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 13th Nov 2018, 19:17
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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all the better to hide one subtlety worded clause in a sub-sub-paragraph in an otherwise inoccuous section -
Isn't that what you do in a lot of your post's? My apologies, maybe I don't appreciate your "cleverness", I'd like to learn from you but you don't educate in a useful way either.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 19:24
  #202 (permalink)  
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I'd like to learn from you but you don't educate in a meaningful way either.

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Old 13th Nov 2018, 19:45
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Don't be silly.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 20:16
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that Theresa had to call in her cabinet one at a time this evening to get them on side. Presumably she had to put a different face on it according to their individual opinions.
Tomorrow's full meeting will be featured in several memoirs.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 20:39
  #205 (permalink)  
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Don't be silly.

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Old 13th Nov 2018, 21:20
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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The DUP have been giving voice to their dissatisfaction with the rumored Brexit Withdrawal Deal.

Their leader in Westminster, Nigel Dodds MP has said “If the reports are as we are hearing, then we couldn’t possibly vote for that” and has been threatening the passage of the Finance Bill (which gives effect to the budget, in theory a government that can't pass its finance bill, falls).

All this on the sidelines of the escalation of the Tory civil war.

JAS
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 21:27
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Ken Clark sounded very chipper about the deal. I think that might be bad news for any enthusiastic Brexiteer.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 22:39
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Well Boris hasn't taken long to decide how to vote...
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 01:17
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Cliff edge Brexit it is then, as voted for by millions!

The question now, is how long Theresa May will be able to cling to the notion that an equitable deal of any sort can be sorted out of this morass of documents? It is absolutely clear that there is no,common ground between the UK and the EU with regards to a common trade and customs area. It is obvious that the demands from each side are utterly incompatible. This has been evident since the beginning of negotiations.

Remaining in the EU is not an option.
Running a second referendum is not an option.
Accepting the deal as currently presented is unacceptable to those in Parliament that hold the balance of power.

Will May last until the end of next week, let alone Chistmas?
Is Boris about to be forced to sup from the poisoned chalice too?

Stay tuned. At least something interesting is starting to happen!
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 04:04
  #210 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...deal-ks9frvbwz

Theresa May accused of betrayal as she unveils Brexit deal

Theresa May will put her future in the hands of senior ministers today as she asks them to sign off a Brexit deal in the face of accusations of betrayal.....

Mrs May’s efforts to secure cabinet backing will be further undermined by a leaked diplomatic note seen by The Times spelling out how the EU intends to force Britain to accept a longer-term alignment with its rules..........

The EU has dropped its demand for Northern Ireland to remain in the bloc’s customs union during this period, which would have meant a border in the Irish Sea. However, Mrs May has agreed that the province must remain more closely aligned to EU regulations in some areas than the rest of the UK. In a further concession Mrs May has agreed to “level playing field” measures tying Britain to EU rules in areas such as state aid and environmental and workers’ rights protections during the backstop.

Sabine Weyand, the deputy to Michel Barnier, Europe’s chief negotiator, told European ambassadors that this concession would be used as the basis of the future relationship with the EU. She also said that Britain “would have to swallow a link between access to products and fisheries in future agreements”, in a leaked note of the meeting on Friday. “We should be in the best negotiation position for the future relationship. This requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship,” Ms Weyand said. “They must align their rules but the EU will retain all the controls. They apply the same rules. UK wants a lot more from future relationship, so EU retains its leverage.”

The briefing underlines fears among Brexiteers that the temporary customs union during the backstop will become the long-term basis for the relationship with the EU, prohibiting new trade deals and forcing the government to adopt all new EU rules and regulations regardless of whether they are in Britain’s interest........

Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader, said that if the reports about the backstop were true Mrs May’s days were numbered. “The cabinet can’t function, and if the cabinet can’t function then neither can she,” he said.

David Davis, the former Brexit secretary, called on cabinet ministers to resign rather than accept a deal that would leave Britain facing “imprisonment in the customs union”. “Cabinet should stand up, be counted and say no to this capitulation,” he said.....




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Old 14th Nov 2018, 04:32
  #211 (permalink)  
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Patrick Kidd in The Times:

”.......Iain Duncan Smith was sceptical, however, that there would be cabinet resignations over this. “I never expect anything,” the former Tory leader sighed. He recalled the harsh criticism that Margaret Thatcher had once given to John Whittingdale, a backbench colleague, during the Maastricht debates: “The trouble with you, John, is that your spine does not reach your brain.”........

A little later, on the stairs leading from Central Lobby to the committee corridor, I bumped into Lord Dobbs, creator of House of Cards, who was unaware that this parliament was turning into the plot of one of his novels. Told that Mrs May had summoned her cabinet to Downing Street for one-on-one chats, Lord Dobbs reflected that a previous female PM had tried that on a November night 28 years ago. “It didn’t work out well, as I recall,” he said........
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 07:20
  #212 (permalink)  
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Well if nothing else, a rare moment of clarity and even more so from the source....

"Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader, said that if the reports about the backstop were true Mrs May’s days were numbered. “The cabinet can’t function, and if the cabinet can’t function then neither can she,” he said ".......who would have guessed that to be the case !

Anyway, time for Treeza to start perusing the "Sit.Vacs," columns ( apart from those in the Guardian that is ) ......

" A vacancy has arisen for an accomplished sales person with a clearly defined and exemplary track record of target driven results achievement to embark on the next exciting chapter of their career. We require an individual who is motivated to enter a competitive market focussed on local demographics with the intention of repeat sales of snow to Eskimo's. " ........

She would be the perfect candidate !.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 07:28
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Politically, this country is now a God awful mess.

The Conservative party is now at least two, possibly three parties. The government is being propped up by the "No Party" (the DUP) who are so self centred as to be a totally unreliable ally and require regular cheques of £1bn to keep them on side. Then there is the Labour party, which rather than taking the moral high ground, in voting for the good of the country, is after one prize, and one prize only - a general election. Worse they are lead by a person who still can't bring himself to admit he's really better suited to being a member of the European Research Group than a serious party leader - in the same way that he seem unable to admit his true opinions about certain religious groups.

If they all screw this up the public, from whichever segment of the Brexit argument they come, will not forgive the current crop of self centred meddlers who allegedly represent their interests.

What is most disappointing is that all politicians, but not least the European Research Group, were happy to dismiss the draft agreement without having so much as seen the colour of the cover of the document, let alone read the jacket notes. They would have been against anything that resembled the outcome of a negotiation, as their plan would have been to wave two fingers at the Brussels and drop out of the EU, safe in the knowledge that their personal circumstances could enable them to weather whatever the consequences turned out to be. The other 60 million of us should be so lucky.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 07:38
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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I suppose that must be the end of Radio 4 then! I don't think I can stand what seems to be a 24 hours per day fixation on this Brexit fiasco! Politicians and humans alike are being asked to comment on this alleged agreement on a paper that only a very few have actually seen and read.
And it is high time someone at the BBC realised Nick Robinson, like his oppo Humphreys, is NOT Paxman!
Meanwhile, has Mrs May forgotten whose gang she belongs to? It is the "Conservative and Unionist Party". If some of the rumours today are true, she may well be overseeing the break up of the United Kingdom. Tower, head separation and bonfire should then be the order of the day!
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:02
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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The reported deal gives no pleasure at all to anyone who has maintained all along that there would never be a satisfactory deal with the EU. It was after all obvious to those having eyes to see.

But nevertheless I very much hope that the proposed unsatisfactory bodge gets passed by Parliament.

It seems to keep us aligned with many of the benefits of being inside the EU. The fact that we will no longer take part in controlling those standards is unfortunate, but we must blame the Brexiteers for giving that privilege away.

Better to be a vassal to the EU than a vassal to the US.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:13
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well Boris hasn't taken long to decide how to vote...
https://youtu.be/W111eM0H5Ws
Hmm, Man who spent the last two years insisting we have no sovereignty now insisting we are now giving up sovereignty. Meanwhile, woman who spent the last two years insisting no deal is better than a bad deal now insisting a bad deal is better than no deal.

Welcome to the mother & father of halfway house fudges, rejection in Parliament leading to permanent sclerotic Brexit debate & the accompanying slow decline of the United Kingdom, assuming the lunatics are kept away from the cliff edge, that is.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:15
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
The reported deal gives no pleasure at all to anyone who has maintained all along that there would never be a satisfactory deal with the EU. It was after all obvious to those having eyes to see.

But nevertheless I very much hope that the proposed unsatisfactory bodge gets passed by Parliament.

It seems to keep us aligned with many of the benefits of being inside the EU. The fact that we will no longer take part in controlling those standards is unfortunate, but we must blame the Brexiteers for giving that privilege away.

Better to be a vassal to the EU than a vassal to the US.
Frankly, as many of us know (or at least what we think we know from the media), what is abundantly clear is that the UK is best off remaining in the EU, and were there ever to be a new referendum, based upon the best deal that HMG could get (which one assumes this must be) there would be a resounding vote in favour of junking Art.50. I struggle to understand how, despite the apparent groundswell of support for a referendum, and recent poll results based on very large (20,000) sample, there is ever going to be another referendum.

As for the choice between US and EU, it's Hobson's choice, but the I'd hate to be even more the USA's poodle than we are now.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:34
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Cabinet Resignations.
Parliament votes down deal.
May loses confidence vote.
General Election called.
Corbyn enters #10 as leader on minority government backed up by SNP/Greens/Lib Dems.
Corbyn proves utterly unfit to be PM.
Labour party seeks new leader.
Centre ground socialists emrege from hiding - Umuna, Benn, D Milliband etc.
Umuna becomes PM.
New In/Out referendum called.
Narrow majority to remain in EU.
Brexit cancelled.
Endex.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:47
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Much too late for all that to happen. Labour might get in, but not until after Brexit.
The worst of both worlds.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:49
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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The big question is really what would happen to the UK if we did try to cancel Brexit somehow?

One thing is absolutely certain; the UK would definitely lose all the hard-won concessions from the EU that it presently enjoys. We may well be forced to adopt the Euro and to become a Schengen state, as the UK would have zero negotiating points when it comes to the terms of the cancellation of our Article 50 letter.

We may well be in a godawful mess, but would we be in a damned sight worse mess if we tried to call off Brexit at the 11th hour? I very strongly suspect we would.
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