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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:04
  #2161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm waiting now for the government to call for the 'little ships' to sail again. Have orders been placed for Mulberries?
Aah yes, the Dunkirk Spirit; minus in this "snowflake" generation the acceptance of hardship, and pulling together as one. That is why it will, apart from for an economic disaster, be a political disaster for many of those at the top of both the main political parties. That might be the only good thing to come out of the nightmare debacle into which the nation is sleepwalking.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:08
  #2162 (permalink)  
 
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no they don't, neither side deals with certainty's they deal with opinion's of what might happen. Pretty much every single prediction so far has been proved to be false. Post exit is just a big cloud which nobody has a clue how it will work out.

A lot of us never expected a deal of any form before the exit. And we don't expect a trading deal in the short term afterwards with the EU.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:10
  #2163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
no they don't, neither side deals with certainty's they deal with opinion's of what might happen. Pretty much every single prediction so far has been proved to be false. Post exit is just a big cloud which nobody has a clue how it will work out.

A lot of us never expected a deal of any form before the exit. And we don't expect a trading deal in the short term afterwards with the EU.
Here's a Ramsgate fact: No ship, Sherlock!

As with all leaver unicorn fanciers, I would invite you to desist from punting what 'a lot of you thought would happen' and point me toward one single credible analysis from ANY credible source INCLUDING our own government's assessments that illustrate a better future post Brexit. Any at all, just one. The floor is yours.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:10
  #2164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
It won't last for decades just like the Poll tax didn't
We hope not! - we hope it doesn't even last for another three months.

If you don't want #brexit to last for decades why do you want it at all? - you are the first #brexiter I've heard claiming they only want a temporary #brexit.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:41
  #2165 (permalink)  
 
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So apart from the Brexit distractions, what is REALLY going on in UK politics?
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:53
  #2166 (permalink)  
 
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:07
  #2167 (permalink)  
 
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I think the demand for ro-ro may be lower than expected. Permits.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:19
  #2168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by under_exposed View Post
I think the demand for ro-ro may be lower than expected. Permits.
Under the EU's emergency preparations for a no deal Brexit the requirement for permits is delayed until January 2020, so there's a 9 month grace period. After that things might get interesting. A more immediate problem is what arrangements are there for transiting EU states after 29th March? Will UK trucks have to travel under TIR carnets? Community transit won't apply as the UK isn't a member of the EU, and probably hasn't got agreements in place to operate under CT procedures.

The permits situation could be eased if we reverted to more trailers moving unaccompanied across the channel, but again, the ports aren't geared up for that, with insufficient tugs to load and unload ferries, and probably again, insufficient manpower to drive them. Ports like Felixtowe, that always used to handle a lot of unaccompanied trailers might come into their own again, but it will take time and that's something we don't have between now and exit day.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:58
  #2169 (permalink)  
 
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If you don't want #brexit to last for decades why do you want it at all? - you are the first #brexiter I've heard claiming they only want a temporary #brexit.
you reading what you want to read

Brexit will be permanent once we are out, there will be no way that they will let us back in, if they survive long term.

The disruption will last months not decades. It could of course been avoided if we hadn't bothered putting time and effort into some dream of a deal that was never going to be.

Some of us have been planning for a no deal exit plus recession in both UK and EU and to a lesser extent globally since the ref was announced never mind the result came out to leave.

Even if the Uk does stay in there will be a recession and huge financial chaos in the next 2 years.

point me toward one single credible analysis from ANY credible source INCLUDING our own government's assessments that illustrate a better future post Brexit
To be honest I haven't seen any creditable assessment that I agree with for either better or worse. So far they have all been wrong from both sides.


BTW its in my plans that the Eu will impose 5% tax on all Eu resident people to cover the UK leaving. If it doesn't happen or is less than 5% then I am more than happy. But at least I have planned for the possibility. I don't know how it will be extracted, if it will be income based or a raise in the VAT.

Last edited by tescoapp; 31st Dec 2018 at 11:26.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 11:10
  #2170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Here's a Ramsgate fact: No ship, Sherlock!

As with all leaver unicorn fanciers, I would invite you to desist from punting what 'a lot of you thought would happen' and point me toward one single credible analysis from ANY credible source INCLUDING our own government's assessments that illustrate a better future post Brexit. Any at all, just one. The floor is yours.
Sprogget - I'm sure you've asked this question before and its been answered, but let's try again...

Firstly, define "better future", as I suspect that means different things to different people. For many of us the ability to control our own borders and attempt to regulate who comes here (and stays here) and possibly reduce the unsustainable boom in population of our Island nation is in itself a "better future".

Outside of this, many of us see the EU as simply another layer of establishment bureaucracy that is remote at best from the majority of "ordinary" folk - in an era when many states the world over are clamouring for sovereignty and independence it seems perverse to pursue a more homogenous and tightly bound EU - there's pretty much zero appetitie for this federalist vision from anyone outside of Strasbourg these days.

Then there's the economics, undoubtedly in the short term we'll take a hit (how big or small that is nobody knows) but in the longer term the ability to strike out independently and agree trade deals with partner nations (outside the EU) is bound to be to our advantage - the world doesnt end at the EU border you know.

I could go on and talk about the idiocy of much of the ECHR and ECJ, the raft of other EU rules and regs (which incidentally we historically adhered to whilst many other members just ignore them!), the dismal failure of the Euro, the misery inflicted on many EU states by fiscal policy constraints, etc.

But, hey, you keep living in la la land...
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 11:40
  #2171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Evidence if evidence were need that BA engineers should stick to fixing aircraft, and logistics specialists to logistics. There are a myriad reasons why DFDS and P+O ships won't be able to berth at Ramsgate, port facilities being top of the list.

There are of course, as has been pointed out many ro-ro ships available on the market to buy or lease, but will they be crewed, maintained and licenced to UK (EU) standards? Probably not. Could they be brought up to that standard by 29th March 2019? Not a hope in hell!
If you read the link rather more carefully instead of hastily having a pop at other posters, you would have seen that the Company has already sourced 2 ships from the market and hopes to have deals on another 2 completed by the end of the summer.

Project Fear eh?
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 11:47
  #2172 (permalink)  
 
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Well said andrewn ! Remainers will never answer straightforward questions anyway - they have a touching faith in an EU Utopia despite all the evidence to the contrary.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 12:00
  #2173 (permalink)  
 
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BAEngineer the dredging starts in Jan of the harbour but from what I remember boarding a UK mil landing craft there 20 odd years ago its going to have issues.

The road infrastructure round it is typical Kent roads ie shite.

All the infrastructure will be rusted to death having not been used since 2013.

Personally I would probably have opted for Ipswich which is deep water and is already setup for RoRo and has decent road connections and means that stuff from the north doesn't have to go round the M25.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 12:47
  #2174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papajuliet View Post
Well said andrewn ! Remainers will never answer straightforward questions anyway - they have a touching faith in an EU Utopia despite all the evidence to the contrary.
What evidence to the coontrary is that then?
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 12:55
  #2175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Sprogget - I'm sure you've asked this question before and its been answered, but let's try again...

Firstly, define "better future", as I suspect that means different things to different people. For many of us the ability to control our own borders and attempt to regulate who comes here (and stays here) and possibly reduce the unsustainable boom in population of our Island nation is in itself a "better future".
Well Andy lad, you can't have it both ways. Only last night you in here telling me the whole country wants Brexit because the Lib Dems tanked at the last election. Now you're saying it's a complex issue with different meaning to different people, Which is it? A one size fits all or a hugely complicated & undeliverable project that cannot work because it fails to address key aspects of British life: Sovereignty which we already have, immigration which we could have controlled but choose not to invest in & the economy, which you consistently denigrate in terms of a no deal Brexit as somewhere between an 'inconvenience' & a 'bit of a hit' but without which nothing else can flow.

You can take that as my answer on a better future. I, like you have never felt a lack of sovereignty in my day to day life. I like you, have never felt hard done by down the supermarket, longing for Argentinian milk. I have though, worked & lived in Europe without let or hindrance & your ossified world view has now made that harder for me & my children to do.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 13:37
  #2176 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
we will muddle though (we always do).
Eau de Brexiteer. Will not be subject to rationing under any circumstances, no matter how deserving.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 14:00
  #2177 (permalink)  

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"Brexit will be permanent once we are out, there will be no way that they will let us back in, if they survive long term.
The disruption will last months not decades. It could of course been avoided if we hadn't bothered putting time and effort into some dream of a deal that was never going to be.
Some of us have been planning for a no deal exit plus recession in both UK and EU and to a lesser extent globally since the ref was announced never mind the result came out to leave.
Even if the Uk does stay in there will be a recession and huge financial chaos in the next 2 years."


"I have though, worked & lived in Europe without let or hindrance & your ossified world view has now made that harder for me & my children to do."

Dead right.

Mac
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 14:27
  #2178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
If you read the link rather more carefully instead of hastily having a pop at other posters, you would have seen that the Company has already sourced 2 ships from the market and hopes to have deals on another 2 completed by the end of the summer.

Project Fear eh?
Apologies for having missed this link, but I can't find you link that suggests they have sourced a ship yet, and having done a Google search can't come up with any evidence; just more sniping at Seabourne Freight (UK) Ltd because they don't have any vessels.

What are the names and specification of their newly acquired ships?
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:26
  #2179 (permalink)  
 
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Its been over an hour since anyone has been rude to someone on this thread. I don't think it will last!!
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:58
  #2180 (permalink)  
 
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"I have though, worked & lived in Europe without let or hindrance & your ossified world view has now made that harder for me & my children to do."
I worked in "Europe" before freedom of movement, and I have worked in several countries outside Europe. As a single passport holder.

It only came in in 2004.

Auf Wiedersehen,Pet was shown in 1983

To be honest I see no difference to the paper work before and after the free movement right existing for working in another country. If they need you then you will start work and everything will be fine. If they don't you will find life very difficult.

What are the names and specification of their newly acquired ships?
Can't be bothered finding the link but, the thing I read said that the company deemed that commercially sensitive and didn't want to be gazumpted on the vessels in question.

They need a shallow draft boat with rear door self deploying ramp. am presuming it will be a dual deck lorry vessel, cabins will only be required for drivers. Something like the M.V. Helliar

BTW don't take me replying to the question as being anywhere near thinking that the boats will be sitting in Ramsgate which will be fit ready for work on the 30th. Personally I think Ramsgate is the wrong port for the job. The who gets to piss the money up the wall is neither here nor there.
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