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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 30th Dec 2018, 20:58
  #2141 (permalink)  
 
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It's in everyone's interest to kick the can down the road so expect that. More of this interminable political situation, more of this interminable thread. Main concern is exchange rates and how to hedge investments against a rising pound with assets immune to the threat of a JC government.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 21:50
  #2142 (permalink)  
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There is no such eventuality as a hard Brexit, a term which in itself is nothing more than a euphemism for Britain legally leaving the EU with no negotiated settlement or treaty. The use of the term to incite public disquiet possibly interacts with the 2006 Terrorism Act which introduced a new offence of encouragement of terrorism. That is to say, statements which are likely to be understood as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to the commission of terrorist acts may be caught by the offence. One clause in the Act was particularly controversial: it provides that among the statements likely to be understood as indirectly encouraging an act of terrorism are those glorifying such acts, at least where members of the public would reasonably infer that they should emulate them.

The 2006 Act was built upon the 2000 Act which contains the following definition of the word terrorism.
1b and 1c refer specifically to the points in hand.

Terrorism Act 2000.

Terrorism: interpretation.

(1)In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—

(a)the action falls within subsection (2),

(b)the use or threat is designed to influence the government [[url=https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/1#commentary-c16756551]F1or an international governmental organisation] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and

(c)the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [[url=https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/1#commentary-c20335951]F2, racial] or ideological cause.

Mr Hammond might need to set aside some extra money for more prisons as part of his EU exit budget plans. Quite a lot of people and a large number of press reporters too, use the expression 'hard Brexit'. Now we've established that in certain contexts that usage breaches terrorism legislation quite a lot of people might need locking up indefinitely. That would be a shame because a large portion of the intellectually gifted population apparently fall into this category. It would probably have a significant impact on primary education in Britain.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 22:07
  #2143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
There is no such eventuality as a hard Brexit
Once upon a time the distinction was whether we would keep our freedom of movement (soft brexit) or lose it (hard brexit). As both May and Corbyn have now promised to take away our freedom of movement there is no soft brexit left in play, so the only options are either remain or one or other more or less indistinguishable version of hard brexit.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 22:24
  #2144 (permalink)  
 
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I agree. The term hard brexit has become a ju-ju phrase intended to suppress thought and elicit an emotional response, or rather the response sought by those who use it . In disparagement. I voted remain, out of only 3 people I know in the demographic and socio-economic domain I exist in. Partly this was in support of my children, partly through discomfort as to the sort of people I might be siding with if I voted leave. Having observed the Remainers arguments here, I need not have worried. They seem willing to wish Ill on the nation to prove their opponents wrong. If we have to deal with the necessities of brexit, they seem intent on undermining what will be demanded of us. It will be difficult but it can be done. I hope what I read here doesn't properly reflect how we will behave. I think it's too late to turn back now, too many political bridges burnt. I just wish I kept better company. We should not have been placed in this position but this is where we are.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 22:34
  #2145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
I agree. The term hard brexit has become a ju-ju phrase intended to suppress thought and elicit an emotional response, or rather the response sought by those who use it . In disparagement. I voted remain, out of only 3 people I know in the demographic and socio-economic domain I exist in. Partly this was in support of my children, partly through discomfort as to the sort of people I might be siding with if I voted leave. Having observed the Remainers arguments here, I need not have worried. They seem willing to wish Ill on the nation to prove their opponents wrong. If we have to deal with the necessities of brexit, they seem intent on undermining what will be demanded of us. It will be difficult but it can be done. I hope what I read here doesn't properly reflect how we will behave. I think it's too late to turn back now, too many political bridges burnt. I just wish I kept better company. We should not have been placed in this position but this is where we are.
Respect.

It's like the shouting match over the ferries thing.

"We're giving £40+ million contracts to French and Danish companies to ferry goods over from Europe because we don't want to be in Europe anymore..."

I have no problem being in Europe, and see no problem with trading with them.

I don't want to be part of the EU though.

Some cannot see the difference
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 23:34
  #2146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Except that the Dover ships won't fit in Ramsgate.
But there are plenty for sale that would. I was rather surprised that there are that many Ro-Ro ships for sale around the globe.

https://horizonship.com/ship-categor...sels-for-sale/
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 23:50
  #2147 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, it is surprising the knowledge that people ascribe to themselves for the sake of this elongated pub brawl. However, it is serious and we need to react so as to defend our interests and our country in the face of this situation. Problem is we have no credible leader, or candidate we can have confidence in. In the meantime we have tendencious chatter boxes.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 23:56
  #2148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
It's not long to the day of Epiphany anyway although the country could certainly do with more wise men.
You can say that again - but I despair of them being found anywhere near Westminster.

Incidentally and hopelessly off topic; a long time ago I found myself AOG at SYR and through a most curious set of circumstances was invited to give a lecture at the Onondaga Community College. Mean anything cc?

Last edited by Gipsy Queen; 31st Dec 2018 at 00:07. Reason: Most uncharacteristically, I made a spelling mistook!
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 06:10
  #2149 (permalink)  
 
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Any of our logistics/haulage experts care to comment on the credibility of the proposed Brexit busting ferry service into Ramsgate...

Feasible or is the U.K. government just spraying money around for the sake of PR and in the hope some of it will stick somewhere worthwhile?

EU Referendum
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 06:39
  #2150 (permalink)  
 
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Ramsgate is not ready. Seaborne is not credible. Graytling is not competent. Time is not on anyone's side. This is obviously a dollop of project fear to be dismissed as talking the country down.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 06:52
  #2151 (permalink)  
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GQ

It's a funny coincidence in its own right what you say. Highly unlikely but possible I suppose if it was in the mid sixties when I was a roaming Bard. At least I knew even then that the Iroquois had five houses.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 07:12
  #2152 (permalink)  
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large portion of the intellectually gifted population apparently fall into this category. It would probably have a significant impact on primary education in Britain.
Now that is a non sequitur if ever I saw one.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 07:35
  #2153 (permalink)  
 
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Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.

Bigger than Japan. Bigger than the United States. On your doorstep. And with the Channel Tunnel to give you direct access to it.
Margaret Thatcher made that point in 1988. Before completion of the Channel tunnel. How did Britain go from unhindered access to the purchasing power of some of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people, to Brexit busting ferries? No doubt the generation best qualified to work that one out will become part of the new 'Brain Drain'.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 07:52
  #2154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Having observed the Remainers arguments here, I need not have worried. They seem willing to wish Ill on the nation to prove their opponents wrong. .
Curious conclusion. Perverse to think anyone on either side of the debate wants anything other than the best for the nation. The only differences are one side relies on data & facts, the other blind faith & an unstinting willingness to dismiss anything negative as 'project fear'.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:12
  #2155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Except that the Dover ships won't fit in Ramsgate.
Evidence if evidence were need that BA engineers should stick to fixing aircraft, and logistics specialists to logistics. There are a myriad reasons why DFDS and P+O ships won't be able to berth at Ramsgate, port facilities being top of the list.

There are of course, as has been pointed out many ro-ro ships available on the market to buy or lease, but will they be crewed, maintained and licenced to UK (EU) standards? Probably not. Could they be brought up to that standard by 29th March 2019? Not a hope in hell!

If HMG had any brains at all they'd have approached an operator such as CalMac, British (tick) experienced (tick) capable (tick). They could have been pressured into temporarily transferring some capacity from Scotland to the channel whilst they leased in new capacity, and got it up to standard in time for the summer season, when their own ships could have returned to Scotland, and the leased vessels employed. Would have pissed off the SNP too, so a win win for HM Government!
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:18
  #2156 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not a Remainer. At least not in the sense that I voted Remain in June 2016, and that really is the only sense that one can be a Remainer. No, what I have done is watched things unfold over the last two and a half yeas before coming to an informed decision. I thought it quite possible that Project Fear was in operation pre referendum and that things might all go smoothly with the leave negotiations and that leaving might possibly provide advantages other than a blue passport.

It didn't go smoothly and it won't provide advantages. What it will provide seems to be an endless chaotic Pas de Deux between the UK and the EU with Eire snapping at our heels at every anguished mis step.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:32
  #2157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
It didn't go smoothly and it won't provide advantages. What it will provide seems to be an endless chaotic Pas de Deux between the UK and the EU with Eire snapping at our heels at every anguished mis step.
I agree with this. Whichever way it goes from here, remain or leave and by automatic operation of law, it's leave, it will be the defining issue in British politics for decades to come with a massively negative impact on available bandwidth for all other pressing issues. Those who see the 29th of March as the finish line are woefully misinformed.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:48
  #2158 (permalink)  
 
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Its a starting line for a lot of us that voted leave. Which is why some are not very happy with things getting constantly delayed.

It won't last for decades just like the Poll tax didn't nor the miners strike. Like them there will be a few bitter and twisted individuals who will keep going on about it until they are in their graves but the bulk of the population will just move on and it will be done and dusted within a year.

And also the Eu won't stay in its current form. In fact very quickly they need to get a raft of changes through just to survive never mind move towards what the ultimate goal is which is a federal Europe. I suspect certain changes will go through that would have never have worked with the UK population anyway which will calm things down very quickly.

Then there is the strong possibility that the UK is just the first of many that will leave the EU and some of us don't think it will be around for a decade never mind decades. And that would have been the case what ever the result was in the UK ref.

And BTW I never expected any advantages in fact the opposite. I expect that we will have to deal with a pissed off bully that's been stopped stealing tuck shop money and the PE teacher football coach has had a heart attack and can't protect his prize striker any more. The time when the advantages will be seen is in the future when your driving into the airport on an early and you see said bully brushing up leaves on the road.

And before you start about being elitist and an educated snob. I used to drive a scaffie wagon (bin lorry) during uni-holidays so more than familiar with what the job entails and also its social value. And its not about money I got paid more driving for the council than I did in my first FO job.

Last edited by tescoapp; 31st Dec 2018 at 09:03.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:53
  #2159 (permalink)  
 
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I'm waiting now for the government to call for the 'little ships' to sail again. Have orders been placed for Mulberries?
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:55
  #2160 (permalink)  
 
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Bang on message with the Telegraph tick boxes there. All you left out was straight bananas, the EU army & Druncker. I can't emphasise this enough, remainers deal in the reality of events, leavers, as beautifully illustrated there deal in unicorns, fairies & wishful thinking.
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