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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 29th Dec 2018, 09:27
  #2041 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I am. I have paid eye watering amounts of tax through my business these past few years, still I'm fortunate to be in the position where that tax is due at least. FWIW, I agree on the attractiveness of the UK to EU nationals & others, we are blessed to be British. My point on this strand is we have betrayed those who came here legally, settled, had families and careers & like you, contributed by changing the terms on which they can continue their lives, having given reassurances we wouldn't.. Those like Orac who seek to twist plain facts are the enablers of this shameful episode.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 09:51
  #2042 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522

How stupid / incompetent (delete which inapplicable) is our current government??

The problem is not port capacity, except in relation to truck parking, it's numbers of HMRC officers, and trained customs entry clerks. Double the number of trucks arriving in Portsmouth, and with the same numbers of import entry clerks you'll just transfer road gridlock from Kent to Dorset and roads around there.

And I note that in typical government style all the ports they are talking about congesting are in the south, they could look at the likes of Immingham and Hull too! Screw up all the country that way.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 11:02
  #2043 (permalink)  
 
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When did Portsmouth move from Hampshire to Dorset?
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 11:24
  #2044 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
When did Portsmouth move from Hampshire to Dorset?
Congratulations on the most useless comment in the thread.
The fact remains that the whole distribution system is built around the current ports. It cannot continue to function normally by moving thousands of truck movements through different ports. And it doesn't allow for the much longer sailing times around the coast instead of just across the Channel.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 11:51
  #2045 (permalink)  
 
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Fact of the matter is Portsmouth has much better connections to the motorway network than the ports in Dorset, see how far you are from the motorways in Dorset compared with Portsmouth or Southampton.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 12:21
  #2046 (permalink)  
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Put a compulsory purchase order on the Isle of Wight under emergency defence measures.
Build two bridges across the Solent.
Bulldoze and tarmac the entire Wight island.
Use that as a storage depot, underground bunkers for fuel and flammables.
Send the military, mercenaries if necessary, in to patrol an protect it.
Frequently chum the waters around the island to deter unwanted passers by in rubber boats

Alternatively, you could take one look at the appallingly undemocratic form of authoritarian government that comes from Brussels, embrace Humanisn and the Commonwealth, hold your head high and trade with the free world leaving the axis of power in Berlaymont utterly and forever.

It's not long to the day of Epiphany anyway although the country could certainly do with more wise men.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 12:25
  #2047 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
Fact of the matter is Portsmouth has much better connections to the motorway network than the ports in Dorset, see how far you are from the motorways in Dorset compared with Portsmouth or Southampton.
The fact remains that there is insufficient infrastructure at port level, or for that matter for road traffic to make the rather daft, and expensive government plan to make any difference, aside possibly appeasing the Brexit voting electorate of Kent, who otherwise will face gridlock on their major road artery (the M20).

I'm interested to know whether these south coats ports, or for that matter any other ro-ro ports have the stevedore staff sitting around on their hands, and fully qualified to operate the link spans and to control the loading and unloading of vehicles, before we even get as far as clearing groupage trailers through customs. The army sure as heck won't be qualified.

Frankly I couldn't care whether Poole or Portsmouth are in Hampshire, Dorset or any other county - the ill thought out, totally unworkable plan has just cost each and everyone of us about £2 - and there will be plenty more £2s than that as the government sends us over a no deal Brexit cliff regardless of the consequences.

I watched "The Queen and I" over Christmas and rather thought it might have been a good idea if roles were reversed - and the monarchy overthrew the government - Brenda might well be better qualified at running the country than the politicians we have now. Why senior people in the civil service haven't got the collective balls to stand up and publicly point out just how much of an omnishambles this Brexit is becoming is beyond me - except of course they might fall off the knighthood gravytrain.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 12:41
  #2048 (permalink)  
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Like this one?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ect-fear-mark/
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 13:18
  #2049 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
This has already been mentioned, but, there's a certain irony as to the ferry company who are top of the list.....and the one at the bottom.

And Kent's status as the "garden of England " is soon to be transformed into the "truck park of England "........that should go down well at the next G.E

Sounds like a pretty good deal - a cost of £108 Million if we leave compared with a cost of £8.8 Billion if we remain.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 13:36
  #2050 (permalink)  
 
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I am not too sure about the "Army sure as heck won't be qualified". Look at Marchwood. They handle RoRo traffic there quite well. In terms of numbers, should these rise the Army would just throw more bodies at the problem.
A good indicator of how clever some of the ferry operators are is Brittany Ferries. They knew what was coming down the road and currently have a new build being fitted out in (I think Germany). This is going to be the first ferry designed to run on LNG, has been designed and built for the UK/France trade and should be in service around June/July next year. Right from their inception as a bunch of French farmers dissatisfied with the then existing facilities available in the early 70s, they have pretty much shown the way when it comes to cross channel ferry operations. They must have been ecstatic when P&O showed the world how they were not competent enough to run a cross channel ferry service from Southampton and Portsmouth.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 14:01
  #2051 (permalink)  
 
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I'd like someone to explain how the ferry companies will deal with the extended sailing times.
Looking at the schedules it seems that a ferry on the route between Dover and Calais will do at least two return trips while a ferry between Portsmouth and any French port can do just one.
​​​​​​How can this be economic, even without considering the additional fuel burn?
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 15:15
  #2052 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Looking at the schedules it seems that a ferry on the route between Dover and Calais will do at least two return trips while a ferry between Portsmouth and any French port can do just one.
​​​​​​How can this be economic, even without considering the additional fuel burn?
What you're missing is that things like sailing times are what we call "facts", but you're talking about "#brexit", and "#brexit" doesn't do "facts".
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 16:24
  #2053 (permalink)  
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(Looking at the schedules it seems that a ferry on the route between Dover and Calais will do at least two return trips while a ferry between Portsmouth and any French port can do just one.
​​​​​​How can this be economic, even without considering the additional fuel burn?)

Perhaps the ferry company could charge more, after all Portsmouth is a lot further from the French mainland than is Dover to Calais. Also, of course, at Portsmouth the passage between Round Tower and Fort Blockhouse is quite narrow and subject to shipping flow restrictions because of tidal flows.
In any event, if the situation becomes dire, the ferries will be requisitioned for the expedition of strategic supplies, like Tesco shipments. Private car travel between Britain and the European mainland will be discouraged and perhaps even rationed to those who own homes in France and the adjoining countryside. These people will, at some point, have to pay an ex- territorial home ownership tax to the UK government which will be used exclusively to develop the British wine producing industry.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 16:57
  #2054 (permalink)  
 
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If the ferries can only do half the crossings per day and burn twice as much fuel in the process, they will certainly have to charge much more. The UK hotel industry should be pleased
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 17:27
  #2055 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe it will be a bit like aircraft where the expensive bit is at either ends of the journey. And we can also help with cost by transferring some of the Billions we are not paying the EU, to the ferry operators!!.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 17:34
  #2056 (permalink)  
 
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the volume will decrease over time once the tariffs kick in and other countries come into the Uk market.

The problem is that to get a full boat the processing time has increased on arrival. So the destination port becomes full and can't accept another boat full. So it doesn't really matter the distance or the time taken for the trip if its sitting in harbour waiting for off load. And its cheaper for a boat to be at sea than it is docked. it may get to the stage that ferries hold off shore until there is space in the custom clearance q. Just like tankers do and other freight.

So the using multiple ports of entry spreads the processing load over multiple sites which should decrease over all processing times.

I suspect private cars will see an increase availability of slots but the processing time will increase because fags and booze will go to normal international limits and most will try and take what they have always taken through.

Fuel burn of a boat is the cubed of the speed so doubling the trip time actually saves quiet a bit of fuel over the same distance.

So halving the speed and doubling the distance with the same time docked will actually decrease the cost.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 17:36
  #2057 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
Maybe it will be a bit like aircraft where the expensive bit is at either ends of the journey. And we can also help with cost by transferring some of the Billions we are not paying the EU, to the ferry operators!!.
You'll be paying subsidies to the (foreign owned) ferry companies in order for them to run uneconomic routes. Yes, I can see that going down well.
Which hospitals will be giving up their red bus bonus to pay for the ferries? I think they should be told.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 17:37
  #2058 (permalink)  
 
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Yes we could compensate the ferry operators. Always assuming there is any money left after we have compensated the farmers, the tour operators et al.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 17:39
  #2059 (permalink)  
 
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The Parish Clerk posted some guff from Bedford Council about recycling. Apparently the amount of wrapping paper used at Christmas in the UK could cover an island the size of Guernsey. This is especially disappointing as I asked for an island last Christmas and all I got was a jersey.
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Old 29th Dec 2018, 17:45
  #2060 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Fuel burn of a boat is the cubed of the speed so doubling the trip time actually saves quiet a bit of fuel over the same distance.

So halving the speed and doubling the distance with the same time docked will actually decrease the cost.
​​​​​​
Have you thought this through, tesco?
Travelling twice the distance at the same speed will use exactly twice the fuel.
Travelling twice the distance at half the speed will save fuel but double the journey time. Which private or commercial driver will want to spend six to eight hours crossing from Portsmouth to France?

If it was economically attractive to travel slower, the Dover ferries would now be taking three hours instead of one and a half.
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