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Jamal Khashoggi....so what happened then??

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Jamal Khashoggi....so what happened then??

Old 19th Oct 2018, 18:33
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
So, a traitor to his own country (and maybe even to his host too) doesn't get killed but the West imposes all manner of sanctions and gallons of vitriol against his home government.
But it wasn't his government any longer, was it?
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 18:45
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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A Turkish reporter Ahmet Hakan says that he is probably alive and in Turkey .

Last edited by fitliker; 20th Oct 2018 at 02:20.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 19:04
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
So, a traitor to his own country (and maybe even to his host too) doesn't get killed but the West imposes all manner of sanctions and gallons of vitriol against his home government. But the home government involved is Russian.
A journalist is apparently killed and disposed of, yet his home government gets a few wagged fingers and a bit of serious tut tutting. And that government is not Russian.
So, should Mr. Putin rename his country Putin Arabia or something along those lines and bring to an end all the financial strictures, opprobrium etc?
Best add some facts:

Kamal Kashoggi was a Saudi Arabian national, working for a US newspaper, and expressing views that were not acceptable to his own government. His government, playing by their rules, on their sovereign territory, chose to deal with him, it seems. That's no different to them choosing to deal with any other dissident amongst their midst, and worth remembering that they beheaded 43 people, and shot a further 4 people, a couple of years ago for being dissidents (they called them "terrorists", but worth checking the Saudi definition of "terrorist", it doesn't match ours).

Sergei Skripal was a British national, attacked on British soil, by Russian attackers, using banned chemical weapons. His attackers were almost certainly working directly for the Russian government.

There is a stark contrast here. One could argue that a state has the right to apply its own laws and standards of behaviour on its own citizens whilst they are on its sovereign territory, as a semi-justification for the killing of Kamal Kashoggi. One could not, by any stretch of the imagination, apply any such justification for a state that chooses to use indiscriminate, banned, chemical weapons to attempt to murder a citizen of another state, on the territory of that other state.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 20:24
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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A consulate is certainly not a sovereign territory.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 22:02
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
...........Sergei Skripal was a British national, attacked on British soil, by Russian attackers, using banned chemical weapons. His attackers were almost certainly working directly for the Russian government.............
.
Clarification please. Are you sure that SS has revoked his Russian citizenship to the satisfaction of the Russian government?
If not, then he may still be a Russian citizen also.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 22:36
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum View Post
Not remotely forgiving. The majority of the 9-11 terrorist were SA and none were state sponsored, even though they most were SA nationals. Hence the name 'terrorist'. There were individuals from I think 4 different nations. They were trained in Iran, and also in FL US. Are we to condemn the whole country for a band of terrorists? I guess I was as ready as anyone to find and punish a state, and not just SA. But the reality was, there was no state involvement, except for those nations who came out in support of the attacks after the fact. namely - Iran. As far as the leader, bin Laden, he was in hiding until the US forces found and killed him. Yes, he was a SA citizen, but aside from his wealth, he had no connection to any of the govt of SA, unless you can show otherwise.

And what would you have done after 9-11 to the state of SA? Bomb them into the stone age? Big deal, all that leaves is the same vacuum. Now, back to the current mess. I don't have all the solutions, but drawing out of SA because they killed one of their citizens isn't a good plan in the major landscape of the regional politic.
https://wikileaks.org/saudi-cables/doc119025.html

Interesting read on Saudi support for 9/11 terrorists.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 22:42
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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But it wasn't his government any longer, was it?
Then why was he attending that consulate in order to have some paperwork approved? Of course he was a Saudi national.
As for Skripal, I would say he was whatever he wanted to be as and when it suited him.
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 23:09
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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The outrage of one person takes the level of hypocrisy of certain countries to another level.
US, UK and Norway, are few making millions on selling Saudi weapons and military training. Which is being used to kill thousands of innocent people in Yemen.
Add the fact that the regime itself, is the closest we have to the real ISIS with regards to religion, ideology and politics.
Yet we have the politicians and business people running like little sheep, to do their best to please the Saudis, who rule with an iron fist in their own country.

And we now get outraged because ONE MAN gets killed in the most primitive way, yet the story of Saudi is much worse than this one man. This is a country still living in the stone ages.
Our politicians will do NOTHING, as they have long time ago lost all principles of what is wrong and right in the world, and if wrong committed by a "friend" - they will do NOTHING.

It's good we can still scream of fear of Putin and Russia, I am disgusted to see the level of hypocrisy and lack of integrity that our world leaders have.
No doubt virtue and rightfulness is dead among our leaders, why should we respect their corrupt and traitorous leadership.

Money , Oil seems will always trump the truth and what is right. I am ashamed to see this travesty by our leaders of the "Unfree World"
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Old 19th Oct 2018, 23:47
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Where's the Body?

The Turkish authorities have widened their search to a nearby forest and other locations, which indicates that no remains were turned up at the consulate or consul's residence.

Reports indicate the baggage of the 15 "tourists" were checked on departure, but how thoroughly? Mind you, each member of the team would be burdened with 15-20# of remains to smuggle them out on the flights.

Vehicles departed the consulate at 3pm. Six Saudis departed at 7pm and seven more departed at 11pm. Two others left on commercial flights. So that does leave time to bury remains in a quiet location.

Would high placed Saudis get their hands dirty with shovels, or hire equipment? The Turkish authorities may be canvassing equipment operators as we speak.

Latest news is that the Saudis have made 18 arrests. Off to the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton with them!
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 00:56
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Oops ..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45923217

As if anyone believed them in the first place..

Perhaps Donald T Rump could quit as their PR adviser and suggest they get a good lawyer instead?

I can just see the Saudi 'detailed investigation' now ..

"You idiot, HOW did you get found out?"

err, thats it...
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 02:22
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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No videos yet ?
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 02:28
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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KevinD,

The Domino Theory was quite controversial at the time of Far Eastern spread of Communism during the US intervention in Vietnam and shortly thereafter. One side supporting the theory was valid by the spread of Communism to Laos and Cambodia and the takeover of Vietnam in 1975. But the reason the Communist takeover in the rest of the countries in the area didn't happen may have been the result of effects of both the Korean and Vietnam Wars. However, it was the inability to recognize the driving force of the Viet Cong was more nationalist rather than Communistic. The ultimate goal of Ho Chi Minh was to become independent, not spreading Communism throughout South East Asia. That was illustrated by the Vietnamese invading Cambodia and overthrowing the Khmer Rouge in 1978-1979.

Today, the Domino Theory as applied to the Muslim Middle East, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and others including Pakistan is dependent on our understanding and recognizing all the forces at play. I don't think we understand or recognize either. So I reject the idea that Ethical presents of the big picture in the Middle East. The real divide in the Middle East beneath the day to day political surface is the Muslim religious division that isn't on our analysis table. It should be, as it goes back thousands of years...
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 03:03
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Can't remember whether it was Ho or Nguyen Co Thach who said, "Anyone who thought that Vietnam was going to allow a Chinese takeover had never read any Vietnamese history", or words to that effect.

Never-the-less, the flow of extremist communism through S-E Asia at that time was very real and the Domino Theory was not without its merits, as theory goes.
But it is also worth considering WHY that threat existed, and it was not all about Russian or Chinese hegemony.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 06:28
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Business over morals. This may not be too far fetched . We would have sold you bone saws if we knew you needed them, Britain tells Saudi government
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 07:02
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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And now the Saudis say Kashoggi "died during a fight" in the consulate. So that's OK then.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 07:32
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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And 45 has immediately said the Saudi explanation is 'credible', that Saudi arms purchases is not under threat, and is apparently doing what he can to make the story go away as quickly as possible.

Nice to have friends in your pocket when you need them. We all knew Putin has him by the short and curls, here's the proof there's another player tugging him in the right places too.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 07:35
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Goes to Consulate to arrange paperwork for forthcoming marriage, dies in mass fist fight, body not found.
yes.....very plausable......said noone ever except Doanld Trump.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 07:56
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC World Service are suggesting, possibly tongue in cheek, that the next step in the Saudi saga of disingenuousness will be to hint that Henry II - sorry, MBS - was overheard saying "will no one rid me of this turbulent journalist" and was misinterpreted by his aides.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 09:29
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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IMHO they (the Saudis) even would not bother mentioning of the crown prince. As they are saying now it was a "fight" during which he "accidentaly died". Hmm, a 59 y.o. pen worker initiated fighting with 15 professional thugs....
Then they will find some bodyguard who "just over-reacted" hitting that unfortunate too hard and assure that he was punished adequately in SA. This will be unverifyable, but accepted by the SA good friends
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 10:23
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A_Van View Post
Then they will find some bodyguard who "just over-reacted" hitting that unfortunate too hard and assure that he was punished adequately in SA. This will be unverifyable, but accepted by the SA good friends
That will work.

Unless and until the audio recording is leaked.
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