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Mediums

Old 20th Oct 2018, 12:40
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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I bet this isn’t on Michael Shermer’s CV. Debunkers like him just ignore any evidence that points elsewhere than their dogmatic beliefs.

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Old 20th Oct 2018, 13:06
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Even Shermer was a doubter for a while - probably until he realised how costly in might be for him.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...m-to-the-core/
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 14:31
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
I bet this isn’t on Michael Shermer’s CV. Debunkers like him just ignore any evidence that points elsewhere than their dogmatic beliefs.

https://youtu.be/uhMsyfhMLH8
With respect, Stan, if that video is something you consider strong evidence for the validity of astrology, then I am extremely disappointed in your ability to determine reality and flat out nonsense. Please see post #33 in this thread. Also, where in that video did they describe the method by which they determined accuracy? It was like watching that old Fox documentary where they "proved" the moon landings never happened.

I do find it scary that so many more people seem to believe in utter nonsense than ever before, and it's all to do with the internet making it too easy for con-artists and those who want to make an easy buck to scam the gullible.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 15:03
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
With respect, Stan, if that video is something you consider strong evidence for the validity of astrology, then I am extremely disappointed in your ability to determine reality and flat out nonsense. Please see post #33 in this thread. Also, where in that video did they describe the method by which they determined accuracy? It was like watching that old Fox documentary where they "proved" the moon landings never happened.

I do find it scary that so many more people seem to believe in utter nonsense than ever before, and it's all to do with the internet making it too easy for con-artists and those who want to make an easy buck to scam the gullible.
On it’s own, it’s not strong evidence, but it was enough to shut Shermer up.

Can’t you see that your mind is just as closed as any religious person that is determined that something in the bible is true? Why are you so convinced that your opinion is right? Actually, I am an agnostic when it comes to most things esoteric, I am open to people being allowed to have beliefs in things I know nothing about.

Tell me Hokulea, what do you really know about astrology? How much time have you invested in investigating it?

I used to fly airliners, I examined pilots. I no longer can, so I can say what I like. Your posts just discourage different opinions from being expressed from people that may have something interesting to say, or that have experienced something of interest. I find that rather arrogant.


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Old 20th Oct 2018, 15:58
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
Tell me Hokulea, what do you really know about astrology? How much time have you invested in investigating it?

I used to fly airliners, I examined pilots. I no longer can, so I can say what I like. Your posts just discourage different opinions from being expressed from people that may have something interesting to say, or that have experienced something of interest. I find that rather arrogant.


1) I read and learned enough about astrology to use professional astrologers' own techniques to fool them and those that believed in their readings.

2) I really don't care if you used to be a pilot. It's irrelevant unless you think astrology and other pseudo-sciences have something to do with flight. If that's the case the pilots you trained and passengers you flew should have been very scared.

3) As usual, with those that dislike any skepticism about their beliefs, they try to change the discussion from something evidence-based to attacking those with a different opinion and science on their side. Sorry, I've been doing this sort of stuff for decades and have often been accused of discouraging those with whacky ideas to remain silent. Not only is that nonsense, it's actually the other way round. Paranormalists, astrologers, mediums, psychics, conspiracy theorists of all sorts etc are those that try and shut down rational replies. You seem to want to join that list.

I have been sued only one time in my life and it was by an astrologer after I showed his predictions were wrong and cost people money. Guess who won the lawsuit?
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 16:01
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Was your wife ever told she would meet a Taurus in Manchester or a Scorpio in Bristol?
Nope.

Seven years or so ago a Medium told my wife that I would fly again in a white and blue aeroplane - I have had a share in a blue and white PA28 since 2014.

Now obviously the chance of her guessing white and blue as opposed to red and white or any other common aircraft colours are pretty good.

But you have to remember my wife never told the Medium that I was a pilot and flew aeroplanes at all ...

Mediums never ask questions, they do all the talking as my wife's recordings show.

I'm very sceptical to be honest, but there are a number of instances where the Medium has been spot on. The jury is out because as people have said why can't the lottery numbers be seen?

I have no idea, but that kind of foresight isn't what serious Mediums seem to be about - it's more about connecting with loved ones who have passed on and life changes.

Most Christians I've met think it's a load of poppycock even though, from my perspective, there isn't much difference between Christian beliefs and those of Spiritualists.

Who knows?
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 19:20
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
I bet this isn’t on Michael Shermer’s CV. Debunkers like him just ignore any evidence that points elsewhere than their dogmatic beliefs.

https://youtu.be/uhMsyfhMLH8
What a shame. For a minute there I thought they were going to do a real experiment, albeit with n=2.

If they had kept it blind, so that they didn't say 'and now here is your real horoscope' it would have had some value. Doing that at reasonable scale, with everyone blinded and randomly allocated 'real' and 'swapped' horoscopes would have helped to control-out the problem with the meaningless % accuracy score. As it was, pretty useless I am afraid.

It's amusing when people accuse skeptics of having closed minds. I will allow for the possibility of anything from Santa Clause to water divining - but is it closed minded to ask for objective evidence before abandoning reason and 'believing'? I am still waiting for someone to say 'science doesn't know everything'. I had a premonition that was going to appear in this thread.
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Old 20th Oct 2018, 21:55
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
1) I read and learned enough about astrology to use professional astrologers' own techniques to fool them and those that believed in their readings.

2) I really don't care if you used to be a pilot. It's irrelevant unless you think astrology and other pseudo-sciences have something to do with flight. If that's the case the pilots you trained and passengers you flew should have been very scared.

3) As usual, with those that dislike any skepticism about their beliefs, they try to change the discussion from something evidence-based to attacking those with a different opinion and science on their side. Sorry, I've been doing this sort of stuff for decades and have often been accused of discouraging those with whacky ideas to remain silent. Not only is that nonsense, it's actually the other way round. Paranormalists, astrologers, mediums, psychics, conspiracy theorists of all sorts etc are those that try and shut down rational replies. You seem to want to join that list.

I have been sued only one time in my life and it was by an astrologer after I showed his predictions were wrong and cost people money. Guess who won the lawsuit?
The only reason I told you about what I did was because I remembered your post from the ESP thread, and thought it ridiculous when you wrote :
“It scares me that some people here actually believe in ESP and might even be pilots that fly me around the world.”

I don’t give a monkeys what you or anyone else thinks about my ‘beliefs’. I definitely do care about the type of thinking you express when you appear to doubt people’s abilities to do the a job simply because they know something or even think that they know something that you ‘think’ is nonsense. What difference does it make to you? Live and let live.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 13:41
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


The only reason I told you about what I did was because I remembered your post from the ESP thread, and thought it ridiculous when you wrote :
“It scares me that some people here actually believe in ESP and might even be pilots that fly me around the world.”

I don’t give a monkeys what you or anyone else thinks about my ‘beliefs’. I definitely do care about the type of thinking you express when you appear to doubt people’s abilities to do the a job simply because they know something or even think that they know something that you ‘think’ is nonsense. What difference does it make to you? Live and let live.
It scares me because I might be a passenger on a plane that is captained by someone who can't think rationally. Lose communications over the Atlantic? It's normal, Mercury is retrograde. That's what astrology will tell you.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 14:19
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
It scares me because I might be a passenger on a plane that is captained by someone who can't think rationally.
Who do you think can/can’t think rationally?

Christians who presumably believe in the resurrection ? flat earthers? Muslims who believe in the 74 virgins?, wife beaters that act normally at work?, people who believe that nukes are sensible? people that believe in reincarnation?( that’s the majority of the humans on earth), alcoholics? Believers in UFOs?, People that are dogmatic about science?etcetc

I suspect that I’ve flown (as crew) with people in each of these categories and count myself in at least one.

Don’t you agree that it’s a slippery slope...? I think we can possibly all be described as a bit daft. (Humans not pilots) Best not worry about what goes on in people’s heads, if they passed their checks they’re probably competent.

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Old 21st Oct 2018, 15:22
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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There is no actual „proof“ either way. You choose to believe, or not to.
Actually there is lots of proof. Mediums, Clarevoyants, Astrologers are one and all chareletons. They make it up. Much of it based on divised method and cold reading techniques. The idea, for instance, that my future, and everyone with my birth date, is decided by how the stars and planets are aligned, is utter nonsense. Prof. Brian Cox has some choice words on the subject.....

Astrology is Rubbish
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 16:35
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Mediums, Clarevoyants, Astrologers are one and all chareletons.

I would not entirely agree with you on that. Some truly seem to believe their own nonsense. I saw a beautifully designed experiment to investigate water divining - it's somewhere out there on the web. What struck me was that many practitioners genuinely seemed to believe that they could detect water. Even when the conditions of the experiment was carefully explained, they were completely confident that they would demonstrate their ability. When they failed under experimental conditions they were puzzled and embarrassed. Many came-up with excuses such as interference from the cameras. I felt genuinely sorry for some of them who had their bubble burst.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 18:39
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Following the sun and skiing... No snow involved just Spending the Kids Inheritance!
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I was also a sceptic until an experience with a well known UK medium, Doris Stokes, who is now sadly passed over. I had lost my son at a very young age and went to a local theatre where Doris was appearing. She zeroed in on me and my wife, but we did not respond. She wouldn't give up, saying she had a young boy with her who insisted his parents were in the audience. She said his presence and insistence were so strong, she was not able to go any further without his parents acknowledgment. We went forward but, because of our scepticism, we only responded with yes or no answers and did not volunteer any information. In the following session, Doris told us so many very personal details about Timmy that left me in no doubt that there was definitely something going on that we could not understand or explain.

On another occasion, my sister was looking after her very young grandson when he suddenly started crying and shouting, "Ganny" over and over. Ganny was his pet name for his great grandad and my sister became so concerned she tried to call our father to see if he could calm the young lad down. The phone went unanswered and we later found out that dad had passed away earlier and around the time that the lad started shouting.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 20:12
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
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I can't explain this but - I knew the exact moment my grandad died. I was on weekend leave at the time and In a club. I suddenly felt an overwhelming feeling of sadness at around 9pm, such that I'd never experienced before. I phoned my mum and said "Mum...I'm not going to see grandad again am I?"
She responded with:"Don't be daft...!"

I was on weekend leave and was crashing at hers. As my taxi pulled up at 06:30 she came to the front door....

When I found out my grandma had died, I had been up all night at a houseparty, and a very niche dance track was playing...not one from the charts or anything. It was 'Everyday' by Agnelli &Nelson in case anyone is interested.
On more than one occasion, when I've been back 'oop north.... it's been played on the car radio, or I have heard it being played by someone else. It's not exactly a common/popular track. I like to think It's my gran saying "I'm still about you know".
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 23:10
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Yes, there are fishermen and women aplenty. Cold reading is indeed profitable.

Which makes the 'no charge' mediums all the more attractive.

Moonbat mode ON/
There is not just a single path laid out ahead of each of us. There are numerous probabilities - different courses of action and events (same thing really), each of which spawns further probabilities.

Psychics can sense the probabilities immediately ahead. It is a common error for a probability to be mis-stated as a prediction.

The client then attaches high import to this information, consciously or sub-consciously. And then acts to bring it about.

Believe psychics if you wish. But don't put them in charge!
/Moonbat mode OFF
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 12:29
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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No proof, despite:
Billions of people on the planet
Now, with billions of cameras and audio recorders to hand.
Billions of CCTV cameras.

mjb





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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 17:20
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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A good friend of mine from skool recently fell out of a tree, and did some damage to his head.
I intuited that it had happened through the Medium of Facebook.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 04:21
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Slow and curious View Post
Just because we don‘t understand or see certain ongoings, doesn‘t proof they don‘t happen or exist.
Isn't that what Religious people tell us when they tell us about their "God"?
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 04:58
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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I saw a beautifully designed experiment to investigate water divining -
Double Barrel, that one was from our larrikin adventurer and solo round-the-world chopper pilot, Dick Smith. He is a serious sceptic, and offered a LARGE amount of money if anybody could prove their claimed skill. None did.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 12:01
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slow and curious View Post
Just because we don‘t understand or see certain ongoings, doesn‘t proof they don‘t happen or exist.
True. There has been a massive explosion in the Pacific this evening and no-one knows whats caused it. Tsunami buoys are on alert but no waves yet.
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