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UK Rail Fare increase

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UK Rail Fare increase

Old 15th Aug 2018, 17:25
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UK Rail Fare increase

Firstly I have never cummuted by train however given that those that do. Say Northampton to London ' complain' about a 3% rise they have a choice....live closer to London, higher house price , etc or cheaper house price but increased commute costs ...

also given that most that do commute they work in offices so all they need is a telephone and or computer

So why do they not be allowed to work from home?


trust by the employer?

my last company HO in Central London before retirement has 2 large call centres 1 in East Kilbride and one in Newry NI

my son Works in a large lawyer office at Liverpool street and house bought in Walthamstow with the help of bank of dad but earns a 6 fig salary and cycles to work

As a side comment amazing the large full all day car parks at the train stations .. more costs car not needed and car park charges

Sorry no sympathy for train commuters!
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 17:44
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Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
Sorry no sympathy for train commuters!
It is a lifestyle choice which does very much put large chunks of your daily life, and its costs, into the hands of others.

I usually cycle to work, but I do have the options of driving, bus, taxi, or, when push comes to shove, walking. I walked that route (different job, on the same science park) once in the 1980s when the sudden snow and ice suggested that it wasn't sensible to try any sort of vehicle.

I could probably earn getting on for twice as much by train commuting to London - but FFS!!!
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 17:51
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I think you make some very valid points with regard to the financial pay off between the cost of property in London and the cost of a season ticket; but of course there is another "cost" - that is a cost in terms of time. But it is a choice that the individual makes - Northampton and commute, or London and cut the cost of getting to work. personally I'd take a lower salary and work in Northampton. Money isn't everything!

Also, whilst rail passengers get the headlines, does anyone stop to consider how much it costs to buy and run a car. HMG says 0.45 for the first 10k miles, and 0.10 for every mile after that, and if you make the calculation (car + finance, servicing, fuel, oil, tyres, brakes and other consumables) the HMG figures aren't that far out. So those of us who use their cars should reasonably expect to whinge when fuel and other motoring costs rise - which they have, and by a deal more 3% in the last year and in terms of reliable travel times, and unless you're unfortunate enough to have to travel with Southern or Northern journey times are generally a deal more reliable by rail than road.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 18:12
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Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
Firstly I have never cummuted by train however given that those that do. Say Northampton to London ' complain' about a 3% rise they have a choice....live closer to London, higher house price , etc or cheaper house price but increased commute costs ...

my son Works in a large lawyer office at Liverpool street and house bought in Walthamstow with the help of bank of dad but earns a 6 fig salary and cycles to work

Sorry no sympathy for train commuters!
Gee it must be great to be so SMUG..........

Choice of where one lives is not necessarily dictated by where ONE person works, in many cases it is dictated by where 2 do or a need to be close to parents to provide child support so they can work or other reasons.

Noting how you had the resources to bankroll son in Walthamstow, many people don't have that option......................... but of course son could live in Northampton, oh wait there is few 100k roles there for lawyers.

Paying a season ticket to London without travecard means someone needs to earn close to 13k Gross and not many people will live in walking distance of Northampton station.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 18:43
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Did a South Coast - London commute back in the early 1990s. Commuting to me felt like the end of the world!!! I lasted under 2 months before I was ready to start throwing zombies under trains.

I truly do not know how London commuters do it, day-in day-out, sometimes for an entire career. They must have some switch in their brain that they can just turn off for 2-3 hours a day. My brother has been doing the daily nightmare of Southern Railways for over a decade. Get a life, bro!!!

Can only assume it must be a combination of alcohol and hard-drugs...
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 21:51
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Choice of where one lives is not necessarily dictated by where ONE person works, in many cases it is dictated by where 2 do or a need to be close to parents to provide child support so they can work or other reasons.
It's all lifestyle choices.

Consider someone in the middle of an academic career, say their first professorial job. They can choose between:

(1) The prestige of having Cambridge on their CV, and living in a grotty terraced Victorian house, and cycling to work, endless grey drizzle.
(2) The prestige of having Cambridge on their CV, and living in a four bed detached house with decent garden in Littleport and sitting in traffic on the A10 for a couple of hours a day, endless grey drizzle.
(3) Sod Cambridge, live in California, mansion with swimming pool and, above all, good weather.

Mind you, since people used to say that the house prices in California have gone up, and one understands that living there can be a transport nightmare these days too. And with global warming it's no longer the case that every summer in Cambridge consists of months and months of endless grey drizzle - we haven't actually had one of those since last year!
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 22:31
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Gee it must be great to be so SMUG..........
My thought entirely when I read the original post.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 22:44
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[QUOTE][house prices in California have gone up, and one understands that living there can be a transport nightmare /QUOTE]

Parking at the LA Coliseum for a game these days?
50 bucks.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 04:54
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Rail fares aren't high enough and need to rise to avoid the collapse of the network.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ld-far-higher/
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 04:59
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Another JB annual topic resurfaces then.

I've never commuted but, it's nigh on impossible not to experience commuter trains despite the best efforts to do so when it comes to travel plans at times.

They aren't exactly conducive to pleasant travel and you have to feel sorry for those who find themselves trapped in this situation. ......and paying for the misfortune at the same time. For those who may be unaware, other commuting areas are available across the UK and away from London.

Enter then, that nice Mr Grayling for whom total incompetence and ineptitude would be an understatement such is his exemplary Ministerial record .......and , given his ideology what better time to return to another Tory favourite, and indeed that of one contributor on here ( morning Proppers ! ......probably still swooning in ecstatic delight at the utterance ) .....blame the unions .

https://www.channel4.com/news/rail-f...e-travel-chaos

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ff-pay-cartoon

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 16th Aug 2018 at 05:30.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 06:45
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Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
Firstly I have never cummuted by train however given that those that do. Say Northampton to London ' complain' about a 3% rise they have a choice....live closer to London, higher house price , etc or cheaper house price but increased commute costs ...

also given that most that do commute they work in offices so all they need is a telephone and or computer

So why do they not be allowed to work from home?


trust by the employer?

my last company HO in Central London before retirement has 2 large call centres 1 in East Kilbride and one in Newry NI

my son Works in a large lawyer office at Liverpool street and house bought in Walthamstow with the help of bank of dad but earns a 6 fig salary and cycles to work

As a side comment amazing the large full all day car parks at the train stations .. more costs car not needed and car park charges

Sorry no sympathy for train commuters!
So your son earns 100k+ per year but still had to rely on you for help to buy a house in Walthamstow.

Can't you see a problem here ???
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 08:03
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Originally Posted by er340790 View Post

I truly do not know how London commuters do it, day-in day-out, sometimes for an entire career. They must have some switch in their brain that they can just turn off for 2-3 hours a day. My brother has been doing the daily nightmare of Southern Railways for over a decade. Get a life, bro!!!
:
I commuted to London for many years from the Northern Home Counties due to a job relocation. One did switch off and in those days I read books chosen, not by the quality of the read but by the thickness of the book to ensure it would last longer than the journey time. This was back in the 80s and 90's, no Kindles etc. I reckon I could have taken an Open University degree course on the train over the time I made that commute.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 08:29
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I commute into and across London every day. You do kind of get used to it. I do a lot of reading and have done lots of studying using free courses. 4 hours a day gives you plenty of studying time.

I'e always travelled for work, it tends to be projects based in a certain area for a few years then move on. I've commuted by train and car all over the UK and neither are great. The trains are better when they run well and you get a seat as you can do something else. I hated being stuck in the same traffic every day by car.

London has been my main base for the last 10 years though. I have absolutely no wish to move my family in or near London itself so settled in Kent. There is no real work for me down there so cannot really decided to live there instead. I could pack it in and do something else, but why would I?

It is the commuters that largely pay for the rail network so that others may travel in comfort relatively cheaply on weekends and through the day. If everyone stopped getting the the train to work what would that achieve other than closure of rail lines and more traffic on the local roads. People working in the large cities and living out in the sticks also does a lot to bring money into these places and spread it around.

That being said my service is very good (HS1). If I had to endure Southern Rail I would have probably thrown in the towel ages ago.

I do agree about more people being able to work remotely though. There are huge numbers who travel into an office and then spend all day communication by email and phone. It is going to change once the old school management retire and the younger generation take over.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 08:36
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Since I understand that the railways run at a loss,and passenger tickets are subsidised some 50% by the taxpayer, and since motor cars run at a profit over highway costs, sympathy for rail users less than it could be.
An interesting example is the lightly used rail line North of Inverness, slow, convoluted and a cash black hole. If the money spent on maintaining/running that line were diverted to improving the A9 North of Inverness, then there would be a political uproar BUT long term benefit.
Strange world!
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 08:44
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A line north of Inverness has very different economics that one into central London, Manchester, Birmingham or Leeds etc.

Improving road links into the cities and building masses of car parks would never be more beneficial to anyone. Far better to build better rail links and out of town car parks to cater for them.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 08:45
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The issue with the rail network is that a very large portion is dedicated to those commuting once a day into and out if London. One can research why so much work and wealth generation got concentrated into such a small area of then UK and such a large commuter network arose - but it is what it is.

Maintaining such a large network of tracks and trains for a twice daily commuter surge is non-economic, regardless of how much you cut fares in off-peak to generate additional traffic. The question always comes down to, who pays?

There are realistically only 4 options; the commuters, the overall national rail passengers, the taxpayer or the business community in London.

Whilst there are any who see nationalising the railways as an aim in itself, those living and working outside the commuter belt would be outraged to have to pay higher taxes to subsidise those in the commuter belt enjoying both higher wages, better rail services and faster growing house prices - plus all the amenities available in London itself. Which is why the rail network was starved of funds and was as bad as it was prior to privatisation. The same argument applies to increased prices to the entire network - those commuting cross country in 60 year old carriages would not be impressed.

Assuming the answer lies in the fares charged for commuting into London it would seem logical if they rise to cover the cost, if only so that economics would either drive businesses and commuters to either work and travel outside peak hours or relocate. An additional London tax is feasible, but any such charge would doubtless be absorbed by TFL and as seed corn for Crossrail 2.

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Old 16th Aug 2018, 09:26
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The amount spent on fares into London, which is many thousands per year per passenger should be more than adequate to pay for the infrastructure. The likes of Crossrail and Crossrail 2 will ensure that this is the case. Relying on ancient railways designed to move a fraction of the actual number can never be economical.

HS1 and very soon crossrail have transformed many peoples journey and then HS2, HS3 Crossrail 2 HS4 etc. will do the same.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 09:37
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I used to commute (in a sense) on my daily journey to school. The journey was from one station to the next on the Cathcart Circle in Glasgow. A half day return cost 2d (two old pence) a little less than 1p now. 60 years later it is 75p (15 shillings in old money). That is 90 times the old fare. No doubt someone can work out what annual rate of inflation that represents.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 09:40
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Funnily enough I see lots of kids commuting into London to go to school. It's one thing doing it for a well paid job but don't know why anyone would put their kids through it.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 10:57
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Fear not.

All this will be sorted when Corbyn gets into No.10.
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