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UK Rail Fare increase

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UK Rail Fare increase

Old 18th Aug 2018, 22:21
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
We have a station (one of the first - 1835 - the first station in the town was built by the Romans in AD85 ;-) without a car park, although there is space for half a dozen cars on Station Road.
We are planning to formalise an adjacent works compound left from drainage works as an 'official' car park for commuters.
Why not suggest the long term commuter bit but would need a control to prevent it being abused by workers in the town.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 01:16
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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First point: Haven't read all of the above posts
2nd Point: I commuted from Essex (longest pleasure pier in the world) to London for almost 50 years.... not quite the steam era but from then on.
Most of that time, I never really concerned about the cost of the commuter ticket, it was simply an aspect of working in London.
I'd had a job in Southend, but London pay was far better, even allowing for the cost of commuting in my early years.
Then, I got promoted, changed jobs several times so salary increased... no problem until one day it was made clear that I was expected to have a company car...
First problem was that wife's parents had been killed in a drunk driver incident when stationary at traffic lights.
Basically, I had been getting payment in lieu of a car, but that changed to either have a company car or no salary top up. No brainer.
However, that now meant driving to the station and either driving around to find a "free"parking space near the station, and therefore leaving much earlier to get that "free" space, or pay more to park at the station.
That meant that train travel now ate into my salary, not just the cost of the annual season ticket (and that from my "net" salary) but a further cost for parking.
Previously I had caught the bus to the station, or simply walked.
Having a company car meant I either used it only at weekends and left it at home, or drove to the station and incurred time or cost penalties.

Where I now live, I would never contemplate the horrendous 2 hour journey up to London, plus parking costs at my "local" station with the utterly appalling service "provided",

I do sympathise with train crews that they should have a sensible wage to reflect the responsibility, but I'm sorry, driving a train on a set of rails which you can't change direction on surely must be much LESS challenging that for a bus driver. (Assuming they are not colour blind to not tell the difference between red and green signals).

Long and the short is that ALL workers should be tied to either RPI or CPI, not a Pick'nMix.

Either give tax relief on train annual season tickets or put train companies on CPI as is the rest o the working population
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 08:33
  #43 (permalink)  
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"I do sympathise with train crews that they should have a sensible wage to reflect the responsibility, but I'm sorry, driving a train on a set of rails which you can't change direction on surely must be much LESS challenging that for a bus driver. (Assuming they are not colour blind to not tell the difference between red and green signals"

Well quite, you do exude sympathy from every pore here albeit your sweat glands must be non existent with your summary of train drivers ability.

You missed out amber, but, not a problem as strangely enough I understand a colour perception test is part of the recruitment process. And, as you say, the train is pointing in the direction it's supposed to be going in, put the power on, trundle down the tracks, put the brakes on and....bingo ! so easy they could be justified in paying the minimum wage really, well in the minds of some that is.

After all, what could possibly go wrong apart from, for example, track workers in the wrong place, landslips, floods, vandalism, solid obstacles on the track, illiterate morons who are also colour blind and hearing impaired, at level crossings, suicides, people taking short cuts, mechanical failures...to name but a few.

You may have noticed there's generally only one person in the cab, who has something called responsibility for driving the train....safely.....lets call that person the driver to save any confusion here. And for doing that, said driver,... not unreasonably, expects to be remunerated accordingly..

But I do agree bus drivers should be paid far more given the direct contact they have with the public and having to contend with the appalling driving shown by other road users who seem oblivious to the role of a bus and the size of the vehicle.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 08:55
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Icare9

Although now a retired Driver /Instructor I could, given a couple of days, have you driving a train and stopping it fairly accurately where it should be. The actual mechanics of train driving is not that difficult to master these days. That then begs the question why trainees take over a year to be considered competent enough to be entrusted with a train load of punters? K&C alluded to other factors that may come in to play. You could have a browse through the below document. This is the master rule book that every driver has to learn and comply with and is examined on throughout their career, and that is only a part of the training process.

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks...%20Iss%201.pdf
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 11:34
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Chalk and cheese - again.

"I do sympathise with train crews that they should have a sensible wage to reflect the responsibility, but I'm sorry, driving a train on a set of rails which you can't change direction on surely must be much LESS challenging that for a bus driver."

Its not. I drive both. There's no comparison between the two.

"Assuming they are not colour blind to not tell the difference between red and green signals"

If you're colour blind you won't be driving trains. And apart from distinguishing between green, yellow and red you need to distinguish between multiple and single aspect signals, running signals and subsidiary signals, shunting signals, close-ups, calling-on signals, repeaters, indicators, co-acting signals, distants, homes and starters, absolute and permissive signals, route indicators and so on. None of which a bus driver needs to know or do.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 12:12
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
You missed out amber, but, not a problem as strangely enough I understand a colour perception test is part of the recruitment process. And, as you say, the train is pointing in the direction it's supposed to be going in, put the power on, trundle down the tracks, put the brakes on and....bingo ! so easy they could be justified in paying the minimum wage really, well in the minds of some that is.

After all, what could possibly go wrong apart from, for example, track workers in the wrong place, landslips, floods, vandalism, solid obstacles on the track, illiterate morons who are also colour blind and hearing impaired, at level crossings, suicides, people taking short cuts, mechanical failures...to name but a few.
Even on days when nothings gone pear-shaped, a driver needs to be qualified and signed off for the routes they drive, qualified on the traction, train preparation, train stabling, and faults and failures. If they're driving MU trains they need to be good for driving in auto when the EP brake fails. If they're driving loco-hauled trains the skills required are much greater - auto, independent and dynamic/regen braking all need to be trained for and practiced to avoid excessive slack action, scaled or skidded wheels and breakaways. On many railways the crews are responsible for their own brake examination before departure - standing brake retention tests and running brake tests at a minimum. All a bit more involved than driving a bus.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 12:55
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Just to add to the above lists is the requirement to be able to drive in thick fog at line speed and still be able to stop perfectly at every station, and obey speed restrictions. It is an unfortunate fact that the first response every time this argument comes up is that someone compares bus drivers to train drivers. The two roles have completely different attributes and occupational risk/hazards and comparisons are not helpful to the development of the debate.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 16:06
  #48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Crownstay01 View Post


Even on days when nothings gone pear-shaped, a driver needs to be qualified and signed off for the routes they drive, qualified on the traction, train preparation, train stabling, and faults and failures. If they're driving MU trains they need to be good for driving in auto when the EP brake fails. If they're driving loco-hauled trains the skills required are much greater - auto, independent and dynamic/regen braking all need to be trained for and practiced to avoid excessive slack action, scaled or skidded wheels and breakaways. On many railways the crews are responsible for their own brake examination before departure - standing brake retention tests and running brake tests at a minimum. All a bit more involved than driving a bus.
I think you may have misinterpreted my post and to whom the comments were directed....because I can assure you they are not directed at train drivers.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 16:23
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not surprised Rail Engineer misinterpreted your post. I often have to read yours through several times before I can work out what you are on about. There is a good rule when writing - cut, cut and cut again. If you haven't cut the original draft to 50% then you haven't been trying. Put more succinctly - do stop rambling!
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 16:39
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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My comment relates to Icare9's observations.
I do sympathise with train crews that they should have a sensible wage to reflect the responsibility, but I'm sorry, driving a train on a set of rails which you can't change direction on surely must be much LESS challenging that for a bus driver. (Assuming they are not colour blind to not tell the difference between red and green signals).
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 16:39
  #51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
I'm not surprised Rail Engineer misinterpreted your post. I often have to read yours through several times before I can work out what you are on about. There is a good rule when writing - cut, cut and cut again. If you haven't cut the original draft to 50% then you haven't been trying. Put more succinctly - do stop rambling!
Erm, ahem.....cough ! reading the name in the quote may be a start....
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 18:16
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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I have long believed engine drivers should be paid something similar to airline pilots. If one is to be paid according to responsibility, well one has to worry about 600 odd passengers while the other carries fewer. However, I don't think it is that simple. Surely it is a case of supply and demand. The railway companies appear to be desperate for drivers (well, they are using a shortage of drivers as a frequent excuse for appalling services); one way of getting more drivers is to pay more.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 23:06
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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K&C - that's a lot better - short and to the point You could have dispensed with the "cough - ahem" though.

Kelvin D is it often said that airline pilots are grossly overpaid 99% of the time. Then when it all turns to worms (eg Chesley Sullenenberger) they can earn a lifetime's salary in the space of 5 minutes).
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Old 20th Aug 2018, 13:11
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Soon as I see a KnC post, my mind goes into automatic "Warning: tirade of utter, smug balderdash upcoming" I'm usually right too.
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