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Stop The Giant Incinerator

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Stop The Giant Incinerator

Old 28th Jul 2018, 00:33
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Stop The Giant Incinerator

Stop The Giant Incinerator is a campaign running in Hertfordshire/Bedfordshire at the moment.

Very emotive words which make the case for preventing building a giant incinerator in the Green Belt. The words create the mental picture of a massive open pit full of burning rubbish don't they?

The reality is a billion pound investment in the local infrastructure which will be built next door to an existing rubbish to energy plant and on top of an old aggregate storage facility. They are following the Swiss model of bringing the rubbish to the facility using an existing rail spur and generating electricity from the energy produced from the gasification of the 350,000+ tonnes of garbage burnt annually in the facility. Given the sensible resistance to transporting rubbish by road, disposing of plastics in landfill and using hydrocarbons to produce electricity I would have thought that this would be a sensible plant to build.

Ah no, local resistance is mighty! Home

As an ex-Oil & Gas engineer for 30+ years I welcome the reduction of waste to electricity and reducing our dependence on energy controlled by others. Lets face facts, modern society produces copious quantities of waste that is far better transformed into ziggy volts than buried masses of gunk to pass on to future archaeologists to ponder over.

In the words of a local journalist: WHAT THE INCINERATOR COULD LOOK LIKE


I live a couple of miles from the proposed location which is 2 miles from Luton airport. Does that qualify me as being a YIMBY? (Yes In My Back Yard).
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 01:58
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Will it be ready before the Zombie Apocalypse ?
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 02:05
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I could not agree more L&S.
Here in Sydney asinine and hysterical objectors whipped up a frenzy to scuttle plans for a waste to energy incinerator in the city's west.
Meanwhile Australia has a serious rubbish and recycling problem, due to China deciding it won't take our waste and lack of proactivity by State and Federal Govts.
Utter idiocy.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 02:54
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disposing of plastics in landfill
I am all for that. fast fwd a few hundred years when oil is scarce I forsee these landfills being mined for the valuable plastic resources buried in them when man has finally mastered the ability to recycle them to the full potential.

I agree its the way forward than the system we have at the moment.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 11:20
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As I understand it, incinerators just burn the rubbish.

Now if all that heat generated was used to provide hot water / heating at a subsidised rate to the local community, I wonder how much opposition there would be?
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 11:23
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This the one near Stewartby.? Threatening to put zillions of houses around there and don't know how it's supposed to fit in.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 11:32
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In Denmark (in the 1980s) District Heating (whereby hot water was circulated through insulated pipes to domestic premises to provide 'central heating') was fuelled by waste incinerators (including straw from harvest).
Lessons from Denmark: how district heating could improve energy security.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 12:11
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
As I understand it, incinerators just burn the rubbish.

Now if all that heat generated was used to provide hot water / heating at a subsidised rate to the local community, I wonder how much opposition there would be?
The resulting energy is turned into electricity and heat. There's one being built in Gloucester currently.

https://www.ubbgloucestershire.co.uk/key-messages/
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 12:48
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
I would have thought that this would be a sensible plant to build.
Yes. Probably. For the time being.

The caveat is that having built such plants you then have to keep feeding them rubbish to keep them viable. Which means that we have to keep on wasting stuff in sufficient volumes. Which we will for a while, no doubt, but in the longer term it would be better not to waste the stuff in the first place - there are, for example, already 86% fewer carrier bags to burn.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 13:02
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Yes. Probably. For the time being.

The caveat is that having built such plants you then have to keep feeding them rubbish to keep them viable. Which means that we have to keep on wasting stuff in sufficient volumes. Which we will for a while, no doubt, but in the longer term it would be better not to waste the stuff in the first place - there are, for example, already 86% fewer carrier bags to burn.
Could go back to banning drink in plastic bottles, must be in glass.
Only problem is energy used on this is way more.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 13:02
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Start thinking of waste as a resource with value.
When ICI started reducing chemical pollution it installed equipment to scavenge valuable chemicals from being wasted .They sold those chemicals instead. Making money.
Making money is the primary purpose of any business .
The old Trax high temperature furnace got value from the calories in garbage to get energy and waste ash to make gyproc for housing.
The efficiencies should incentivize themselves as money can be mined from most valuable resource .
Just takes a little vision and faith.
​​​​​Who knows they might just be able to mine the minds of the nimbys for ideas on how to make it more profitable
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 13:11
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So what will be its name ?

Burnie MacBurnalot
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 13:12
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Yes. Probably. For the time being.

The caveat is that having built such plants you then have to keep feeding them rubbish to keep them viable. Which means that we have to keep on wasting stuff in sufficient volumes. Which we will for a while, no doubt, but in the longer term it would be better not to waste the stuff in the first place - there are, for example, already 86% fewer carrier bags to burn.
Thanks entirely to a crusade by that bastion of public concern.......enter.....the Mail ( who splurged this across the front page to give the readers a smug glow of self- satisfaction in their otherwise abysmal choice of rag )....

However, the serious bit. I know nothing about the technical aspects of these plants, but, we do have to look to the future when it comes to energy supplies and their sources. Such plants would seem to be a logical attempt to contribute to energy needs and be environmentally friendly . Thus what's the real reason for the objections because behind each and every "Nimby" objection, irrespective of the context, there's invariably what is politely referred to as an "agenda " .
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 13:30
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Originally Posted by BirdmanBerry View Post
The resulting energy is turned into electricity and heat. There's one being built in Gloucester currently.

https://www.ubbgloucestershire.co.uk/key-messages/
There is already one at Great Blakenham in Suffolk and there are plans for another one at Raydon in Essex on the WW2 airfield site.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 14:27
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In Denmark it was called CHP - Combined Heat and Power.

In my last post we were in a safeguarding area and were invited to agree or object to both wind farms and incinerators. In both cases the affected populations wanted us to object, occasional aircraft noise being preferable to a permanent 'blight'.

Now if they had been offered cheap electricity a la Denmark would they have not objected?
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 16:06
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District Heating (whereby hot water was circulated through insulated pipes to domestic premises to provide 'central heating')

Battersea Power Station comes to mind.

It's incredible in this day and age to think of those four chimneys pumping out soot from coal. People think the old movies were all in black and white, but many were just colour films of London and drab people. (Shudder)

Yes, to the notion of not producing it in the first place. As one old guy, I can not believe how much plastic waste I, erm . . . recycle??? "Put into landfill" ? I'd assumed it was going to be used for something.

Many years ago, while trying to heat a sizeable house with a blazing fire every night, I saved the plastic from my large family's throughput. I cut some it into strips and tried the first batch with some logs and coal. The heat was fantastic, but the black smoke meant I never tried it again.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 16:46
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Thus what's the real reason for the objections because behind each and every "Nimby" objection, irrespective of the context, there's invariably what is politely referred to as an "agenda " .
People with little influence over their surroundings and lives who always say 'no' when consulted on anything because saying 'yes' is effectively the same as being invisible.

The 'HS2 to be approved' thread is a good read if you like hysteria.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 18:02
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Round here the local campaigns are "No Fracking". Almost every village has "anti" posters on every gate and lamp post.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 18:56
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Thus what's the real reason for the objections because behind each and every "Nimby" objection, irrespective of the context, there's invariably what is politely referred to as an "agenda " .
There was a waste incinerator on North Tyneside that distributed the residual ash for use for paths in recreation areas and allotments - which was subsequently determined as being toxic (dioxins) and the council had to remove it all and, after a public campaign, the incinerator was demolished.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 00:14
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Here on Teesside UK we have a number of these plants, some just burn household waste others digest stuff to make gas which is burnt, wood burning plants and a plant that makes burnable pellets from poop! No one complains about the plants only the construction guys protest as there is suspicion of cheap European workers.
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