Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Different navigational approaches...

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Different navigational approaches...

Reply

Old 12th Jul 2018, 14:01
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: near an airplane
Posts: 1,088
Different navigational approaches...

Right, anything goes in Jet Blast, so let's see what your thoughts are on this.
I've often been baffled by the navigational choices made by, let's say, a close friend of mine. Gender is of course completely irrelevant in this discussion, but let's assume we're talking about someone of the opposite gender. Now when I'm navigating towards a destination, I know from looking at maps in which approximate direction this destination lies, and will often turn in that direction, even though I may be guessing at the route. My friend will sometimes turn in a completely opposite direction, or drive past the destination, to loop back towards it. The explanation is often 'knowing that this route leads to where I need to go'. To me, these choices seem completely at odds with my knowledge of which direction we need to go. On the other hand we do get to the destination in the end.

I recently came up with an analogy that attempts to describe what's happening in this mind. I noticed that whenever we took a new shortcut between two familiar areas, I heard 'hey, so this is how this connects!' next to me. The person in question is also very well able to completely retrace routes once traveled, based on visual cues picked up during the outbound drive. So what I think is happening is this: The memory of a particular route seems to be stored as a complete 'movie' that shows, in a sense, a view of a tunnel. As the particulars of the tunnel are known, and beginning and end are known, these 'tunnels' can all be retraced, but somehow the path the tunnel traces across a map is not stored. So you end up with a network of mentally stored 'tunnels', some of which are interlinked, some of which are independent but may lead to two destinations that are really close to each other.

This can obviously be cured by learning to fly, so that you can more easily grasp the 'view from above', but it's a costly solution

Right, that's my two cents. I just wanted to throw it into a group to see what you think of this analogy. The 'tunnel view' vs the 'helicopter view' if you will.
Jhieminga is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 14:11
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 976
My (female as it happens, although I am not generalising in any way) brilliant maths teacher said that when she lived in Wimbledon, she knew her way from there and back to anywhere else in London. Therefore, to go from any A to any other B she would drive from A to Wimbledon, then from Wimbledon to B. It worked for her - although her journey times were sometimes protracted.
Fitter2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 15:38
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 66
Posts: 867
Apocryphal tale?

When asking directions from a local in Dublin, a tourist received the reply, "Well if I were you sir, I wouldn't start from here!"
sitigeltfel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 15:52
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 570
I can reliably find my way to anywhere.

It is slways the opposite direction from where Mrs O heads off.
obgraham is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 15:52
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Porton, UK
Age: 65
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Apocryphal tale?

When asking directions from a local in Dublin, a tourist received the reply, "Well if I were you sir, I wouldn't start from here!"
Second night of our honeymoon, just arrived in Dublin, late in the evening, off the ferry. Staying at the Royal Hotel, O'Connell Street. Drove past it twice, couldn't see how to park. Saw a guard, stopped and asked where I could park. First response "Well, good evening sir, you don't really park in Dublin, you just sort of abandon yer car". Said with a big grin. Second response, with arm pointing up the road towards a side road with a "no entry" sign. "See that road there by that sign, go down there and first on the left you'll find the hotel car park". Me: "But that means I have to go the wrong way down a one way street". Guard : "Sure, but that's what everyone does". With that he wished us a good night and headed off.
VP959 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 16:03
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SW France
Age: 72
Posts: 564
For a masterclass in parking, visit Naples.

Those of the opposite persuasion can easily confuse left from right..
sidevalve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 16:51
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 71
Posts: 3,470
Heading East to Reading with my brother we turned off the M4 and arrived at the roundabout above our exit. At this point my Satnav threw a wobbly and directed me back down the A4 in a Westerly direction. Thinking this might be some cunning short cut known only the Satnav I went along with it for 5 minutes, passing a couple of roundabouts at which I was directed to carry on West. My brother was all for believing the Satnav and ignoring his ex-nav brother, but in the end when I pointed out that the large shiny object in the sky on our left meant we were heading West he agreed to go along with me I switched the damned thing off and finished the journey unaided.

This can obviously be cured by learning to fly, so that you can more easily grasp the 'view from above', but it's a costly solution
Didn't cost me a penny, in fact HM paid for me to do it!
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 17:02
  #8 (permalink)  
Paid...Persona Grata
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Between BHX and EMA
Age: 72
Posts: 235
When asking directions from a local in Dublin, a tourist received the reply, "Well if I were you sir, I wouldn't start from here!"
Not quite same, but some years ago a mate of mine was flying in an air race. I had agreed to meet him in the bar of his hotel the night before so he could brief me as a spectator. Arriving at the very small town by car in the dark we couldn't immediately find the hotel. Saw a couple walking along the road and pulled over to ask them. Answer was "Well it's a fair way from here you'll need a taxi"
UniFoxOs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 18:57
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
"See that road there by that sign, go down there and first on the left you'll find the hotel car park". Me: "But that means I have to go the wrong way down a one way street". Guard : "Sure, but that's what everyone does". With that he wished us a good night and headed off.
There's a hotel in Oslo (I think it was) whose car park appeared to be completely unreachable without driving quite some distance along a pedestrian's only area. So that's what we did, having circled the block three times and found no other way in.

On short cuts vs known routes. Yesterday I had to get from A to B by bike, and had never done that particular journey before, although I knew all the roads involved in several ways of doing it. A quick look at Google Maps showed that the recommended quickest route involved some convoluted short cuts through parks and housing estates that I didn't know my way around, so I did as the OP's "person of the opposite sex" did and stuck to roads I knew, albeit that meant I had to cycle a couple of hundred yards further (on something like a five mile journey).
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 19:00
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by UniFoxOs View Post
Arriving at the very small town by car in the dark we couldn't immediately find the hotel.
Arrived in a small town at night, had no idea how to find the holiday apartments we were going to, so just parked at random and phoned. Described the street scene. "OK, I'll just come down and let you in," she said, and a few seconds later opened the (unmarked) door we'd parked next to.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 19:15
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Deciding whether I am retired or unemployed
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by sidevalve View Post
For a masterclass in parking, visit Naples.
A duty run used to take me to Naples once a month by which time I’d held a driving licence for 14 years. From that experience I now say it was in Naples that I really learnt to drive; dither for a second and you’d get nowhere. ‘Very Naples of you dear’ can often be heard from the left hand seat whenever I encounter a Mexican standoff with everybody giving way to everybody else resulting in nobody moving until I start the ball rolling. The same left hand seat is cartographly challenged to a level that defies explanation.
It's Not Working is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 19:49
  #12 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 15,834
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Apocryphal tale?

When asking directions from a local in Dublin, a tourist received the reply, "Well if I were you sir, I wouldn't start from here!"
I was able to use just those immortal words in Boston when someone asked the way to Lincoln.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 19:59
  #13 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 15,834
Sense of Direction

A fellow crewmember in Keflavik had to go to the hospital with an ankle issue.

After the consultation he called a taxi - $4 anywhere in base but the drivers do not have the best English. He said where he wanted to go and the driver just looked at him. He confirmed the destination and got in.

The driver did a U turn and held his hand out for the money as it was just 15 feet . I should add, he was an AEO.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 12th Jul 2018 at 20:11.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 20:19
  #14 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 11,570
My wife has very little directional awareness. For example, she will walk down a road, turn left into a shop. When she leaves, she turns left again out of the door thinking she is retracing her steps then wonders why she has got lost yet again.

We once went shopping as a family. We parked in multi-storey car park on the floor that was level with the shops (no steps to go up or down) in the most adjacent spot to the exit/entry to them. We walked back to the car, loaded all the shopping and the kids (one of whom was pre-toddler age) and got in, ready to go. My wife then declared she had forgotten something she needed (wrapping paper I think it was) and got out, saying "I'll be just two minutes". She didn't reappear for over an hour and a half! When she finally did appear, she was hot, bothered, tearful and extremely angry with me. According to her, I had driven the car to a totally different place just to annoy her. I hadn't even turned the engine on; we had just waited and waited, eventually getting very concerned about her. Thankfully my other kids backed me up!!
ShyTorque is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 21:59
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Out in the sticks in DE56
Age: 80
Posts: 535
I'm convinced there's all sorts of stuff gets fed in without our noticing. Standing in the crowd line at Farnboro years back, I was next to a Kiwi pilot. The commentator told us to look east as something-or-other was on approach, and my friend immediately looked right. I reminded him that early afternoon sun is in the south in the northern hemisphere...
I normally have a good sense of direction in the UK (even when overcast) but found it very difficult on my first visit to Ghana... the sun so high I didn't register its position; found it very hard to work out which direction we were going.
But one has observed that the use of the Satnav has greatly diminished the use of the question "Why are you going this way?" from the passenger seat
jimtherev is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jul 2018, 22:01
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Fletcher Memorial Home
Age: 53
Posts: 292
When computer based navigation systems first came out, we had to travel to visit friends who had moved house, and the trip was around 150 miles. I knew the minor city they lived in but not the directions to their new address, so I loaded up the software and printed out a route map. For some reason the settings for the route selection were set to "shortest route", which took no notice of whether it was a major road or a farm track, just the shortest distance from A to B.

We set off, aiming for the nearest A road, and came to a junction where a right turn would take us to the A road. I indicated right, but was told by the long haired high command in the passenger seat that "the route instructions say go straight on". I explained that turning right here would take us straight onto the A road, meaning we could get u p to a decent travelling speed quicker, but to no avail. I was directed onto a series of back roads and laneways which eventually took us onto the same A road but further down, all to save something like 300 metres according to the differences in the route map.
Ogre is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jul 2018, 01:00
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 213
Originally Posted by jimtherev View Post
I'm convinced there's all sorts of stuff gets fed in without our noticing. Standing in the crowd line at Farnboro years back, I was next to a Kiwi pilot. The commentator told us to look east as something-or-other was on approach, and my friend immediately looked right. I reminded him that early afternoon sun is in the south in the northern hemisphere...
I normally have a good sense of direction in the UK (even when overcast) but found it very difficult on my first visit to Ghana... the sun so high I didn't register its position; found it very hard to work out which direction we were going.
But one has observed that the use of the Satnav has greatly diminished the use of the question "Why are you going this way?" from the passenger seat
That rings true for me Jim.

I think the sun makes a huge difference and I don't believe most of us know we rely on it instinctively.

In the northern hemisphere I have great trouble establishing direction - it all seems mirror imaged. Never have much trouble here in the correct half of the world.

When I was much younger I worked as a stock mustering pilot. Typical paddock sizes could be 10,000 acres, sometimes double that or more and could be heavily scrubbed (timbered) often making visibility over any reasonable distance for stockmen riding motorbikes on the ground restricted to short distances.

From the aircraft, I would direct stockmen on the ground via radio (and the term stockmen covers females - there were some female "stockmen" I worked with who were as good as any male stockman in both directional ability and stock sense and ability). Often I would need them to move their mob straight in a direction for long distances ("OK turn left a bit... bit more... OK that way! - take your mob that way for a few clicks and you will pick up another mob on the other side of a big mulga flat in about 15 minutes"). Meanwhile I would head off to a different part of the paddock looking for other animals or directing other stockmen.

Given an initial direction, most stockmen could then move their mob (assisted by dogs), without further guidance from me, managing to keep a large mob of animals who wanted to cut in all directions, mobbed up together travelling in a given direction for long distances. Often through thick scrub and awkward terrain and almost always they would end up where I aimed them some time later, sometimes for kilometers. Averaging straight as a die.

Except on overcast days. On overcast days they would regularly push the mobs around in big curves unless I kept directing them.
jonkster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jul 2018, 02:56
  #18 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 54
Posts: 4,875
Originally Posted by jimtherev View Post
I'm convinced there's all sorts of stuff gets fed in without our noticing. Standing in the crowd line at Farnboro years back, I was next to a Kiwi pilot. The commentator told us to look east as something-or-other was on approach, and my friend immediately looked right. I reminded him that early afternoon sun is in the south in the northern hemisphere...
But the crowd line at Farnborough faces north (or NNW), so to spot something approaching from the east one has to look right...
treadigraph is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jul 2018, 06:47
  #19 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 15,834
But one has observed that the use of the Satnav has greatly diminished the use of the question "Why are you going this way?" from the passenger seat
Really?

Now it is "Why are you listening to her and not me?"

Yesterday, straight through a town centre - mid morning, deserted. Then a pretty route but avoided A1.

"We could have been home half an hour a go"

Traffic

"Oh, that was a pretty route, very quiet"
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jul 2018, 07:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Malvern, UK
Posts: 387
For some reason I am reminded of a short story by Stephen King.

It was about a woman who was obsessed with finding shortcuts for her drive home from the city. While her friends insisted that it was both easier and quicker to take the freeway than waste time on all those tricky narrow roads, she insisted that if you could save enough distance then you could eventually save time.

Then one day she claimed she had found another variant of the route that would save her another half-mile. Despite her sceptical friends pointing out that she was now claiming a route that was shorter than the straight-line distance between the two places she was undeterred and set off to try out the new route.

She was never seen again.
Dont Hang Up is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service