Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

On the eve of war

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

On the eve of war

Old 14th Apr 2018, 13:56
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 49
Posts: 784
The really worrying this is the big white elephant in the room, what would happen if Syria were to fall?

We will have living hell on earth, beyond the Libya fiasco, when the US sponsored bloodthirsty Jihadists get their hands on the civilian population of Damascus. Did we learn *anything* from Libya? Like Libya there are *zero* plans for reconstruction. The civilians will suffer again hugely, through mass slaughter, beheadings, rapes, murders.

The sensible option (as Russia has done) is to back Assad against radical Islamic elements almost completed, invest in the country, reconstruct it, encourage democratic reform etc etc... not likely.

Of course this is never mentioned in the Western media, just as Libya is a distant memory. It really does defy belief.

Those that support the bombings and overthrow of Assad here should be made to explain what the plan is once he has gone.
flash8 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:13
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: XFW, Germany
Posts: 119

Breaking the law accomplished.
PAXfips is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:34
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Posted on that site I sent you link to last week.
So where is the verification, as it seems markedly different from the figure the Syrian government are claiming?

One or the other must be in error by a serious margin, which to me tends to indicate that neither are accurate, and casts doubt on the veracity of both.

I doubt we'll get to see the official BDA, but no doubt there will be strong murmurings if any claims look suspiciously optimistic or pessimistic. We know the probability of kill for the weapons used on all sides with a reasonable degree of accuracy, so I'd expect over 90% of the missiles fires to have got through Syrian air defences and would be surprised if that figure was out by more than +/-5%.
VP959 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:36
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: CYYC (Calgary)
Posts: 5,106
thankfully returning to base safe and sound.
Probably a fairly short, low-risk mission:

ďAkrotiri Tower, missile away, downwind to land.Ē
India Four Two is online now  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:39
  #245 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,613
Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight View Post
Very wise words. My father with large experience in Middle East pointed out the day before yesterday how bad Americans are at finding a replacement of a bad leader in Middle East.
and remember who supported Castro whereas we were in favour of Batista.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:42
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lost, but often Indonesia
Posts: 595
What exactly were they hoping to achieve?
Octane is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:45
  #247 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,613
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
What exactly were they hoping to achieve?
I imagine what they said.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 14:50
  #248 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,613
Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Now we have Sir Alan West... former First Sea Lord.... and Chief of Naval staff.... speaking out.

Who next? The Air Vice Marshall of the RAF?
Lord West. .
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:03
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 49
Posts: 784
Lord West. .
OK,PN, formerly Admiral Sir Alan West...
flash8 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:04
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,012
This is not specifically about Assad, it's about chemical weapons. Obama, whatever else one might praise or blame him for, laid down a red line and then did nothing when itwas crossed. Now the precedent has been reset - poison gas is a no-no. Likewise nerve agents. However much Moscow officials (and trolls) deny the truth, I suspect the message has been understood.
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:15
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 142
100% of the missiles were intercepted - mainly by targets.
cdtaylor_nats is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:22
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 421
Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Another bumbling theocratic state in place of a bumbling wannabe king-dictator type thing could hardly be worse.
Syria has little to offer the world other than a lump of land in an awkward place.
you are very ignorant, turn off your tv for a while and do some research. Or just look back at history, 2003. You haven't learned from your mistakes have you? attacking Iraq based on lies, just like today attacking syria with NO EVIDENCE of a chemical attack and without waiting for UN inspectors to do their work. I bet you are the kind of guy that enjoys seeing missiles strike syria and then complain about getting more refugees. Any intervention made by the 'Hero' USA to 'Protect' 'Democracy' ends up in plunging a country into the chaos and creating terrorists.
Jumbo744 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:38
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 6,009
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
and remember who supported Castro whereas we were in favour of Batista.
Think the Cuban people looking back on almost 60 years thank god for Castro.

60% literacy to 100% literacy
Zero medical assistance unless rich to Universal for all

Democracy didn't happen but then again under Batista it wasn't there either as he had siezed power in a coup and flogged off whatever he could to the Mafia.
racedo is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:47
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 67
Posts: 898
The BBC asks the question "has Jeremy Corbyn ever supported a war?"

Has Jeremy Corbyn ever supported a war? - BBC News

Well, apart from the little spat mentioned in the article, there are also the following he supports...

The IRA war against the UK population.
The Hamas war against Israeli civilians.
The Argentinian junta against the Falkland islands.
The Islamist war against Western civilisation.

In fact, Corbyn supports anyone who will damage the country he seeks to lead, or damage democracy.
Not such the pacifist he claims to be then?
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:52
  #255 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,074
In other news US admitted that it has paid US Mercaneries in Syria and Iraq.
Russia used to - but they made the mistake of attacking the Americans....
ORAC is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 16:00
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,175
Or just look back at history, 2003. You haven't learned from your mistakes have you? attacking Iraq based on lies, just like today attacking syria with NO EVIDENCE of a chemical attack and without waiting for UN inspectors to do their work. I bet you are the kind of guy that enjoys seeing missiles strike syria and then complain about getting more refugees. Any intervention made by the 'Hero' USA to 'Protect' 'Democracy' ends up in plunging a country into the chaos and creating terrorists.
Evidence is in the eye of the beholder. Saddam mouthed off and look what he got.

Now somebody has planted pics of people choking and gasping from a chemical attack.

Both Iraq and Syria are closed societies and don't allow timely corroboration and got a response.

Did somebody not expect a response?

Only now it becomes a war of words to satisfy the audience. If the audience is not satisfied then more will happen.
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 16:31
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 595
One thing about JB, it’s completely predictable. No matter what Trump, the US, or its “lapdogs” do, it is the wrong thing to our peanut gallery here.

So my question: Precisely what should the US, with or without allies, have done as a response to Assad’s use of these chemical weapons? Pick one, and you are not allowed to filibuster about how all of this is the fault of x, y, or z:

1.Bomb the crap out of Assad with one targeted directly at his rear end.
2.Talk things over at the UN
3.Get the Israelis to take care of things
4.Tell Assad he’s being naughty and not to do it again
5.Nothing
6.Send a few missiles in to make a point
obgraham is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 16:39
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 81
Posts: 699
Think the Cuban people looking back on almost 60 years thank god for Castro.
I think you will find that a lot of Cuba's social problems and poverty has been the result of blockade and economic actions by the US. Castro had some good socialist ideals but there was a terrible price to pay for Russian support and with the US on the doorstep there was no way that Russia could resist the actions they took which eventually resulted in the virtual destruction of the Cuban economy.
funfly is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 16:43
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 81
Posts: 699
No matter what Trump, the US, or its “lapdogs” do, it is the wrong thing to our peanut gallery here.
The problem the US has, and it doesn't matter if it is Trump or others, is their close relationship with Israel which results in the observing public (us) questioning their motives on every action they take in the Middle East.
funfly is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 16:43
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 684
So my question: Precisely what should the US, with or without allies, have done as a response to Assadís use of these chemical weapons?
Thatís the whole problem. People rightly arenít convinced that Assad was the one that used chemical weapons, and even if he did, they are starting to ask themselves, what is going on here?

Does it seem sensible that weíre bombing a country where the war is largely over? People know from experience what the consequences are of hasty decisions that the politicians appear to be hell bent on carrying out.
Stan Woolley is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.