Andrew Lansley.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Another Planet.
Posts: 559
Andrew Lansley.
Our former minister who wasted three thousand million pounds on a much-vilified and destructive "reorganisation" of our health service is now a passionate advocate of spending more on cancer diagnosis and IT services.
This Damascene conversion follows his diagnosis of cancer and treatment by the same Health Service he helped propel into it's current state of crisis.
Is there a connection between these events? Discuss.
This Damascene conversion follows his diagnosis of cancer and treatment by the same Health Service he helped propel into it's current state of crisis.
Is there a connection between these events? Discuss.
Last edited by BARKINGMAD; 3rd Apr 2018 at 09:59.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,438
Personal experience can drive political action. The reason I put 600 new bike parking spaces into Cambridge city centre was not unconnected with my frustration at never being able to find anywhere to park my bike.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,065
I understand that the NHS needs more money (although I doubt that it can ever have enough to do everything that could be done for everyone who needs, or wants, it. But why does every discussion centre around 'cuts' when every figure shows it steadily increases in real (inflation adjusted) terms?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,130
Originally Posted by Fitter2
I understand that the NHS needs more money (although I doubt that it can ever have enough to do everything that could be done for everyone who needs, or wants, it. But why does every discussion centre around 'cuts' when every figure shows it steadily increases in real (inflation adjusted) terms?
CG
Resident insomniac
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 77
Posts: 1,870
Originally Posted by charliegolf
If a 78 year old woman has to wait for 15 hours for an ambulance after breaking her femur outside her sister's home, there is not enough in the ambulance pot.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by charliegolf
If a 78 year old woman has to wait for 15 hours for an ambulance after breaking her femur outside her sister's home, there is not enough in the ambulance pot. Saying (as they always do), "This government has increased spending by...", doesn't cut it. We need 'enough' in the system. Your graph shows an increase that isn't 'enough'.
CG
CG
Given the unlimited demand for the NHS will any increase be 'enough'?
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by charliegolf
If a 78 year old woman has to wait for 15 hours for an ambulance after breaking her femur outside her sister's home, there is not enough in the ambulance pot. Saying (as they always do), "This government has increased spending by...", doesn't cut it. We need 'enough' in the system. Your graph shows an increase that isn't 'enough'.
CG
CG
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,130
Put another way... is there another first world country that takes 15 hours to get a woman with a broken femur to hospital? (Noted about ambulances getting hung up, but they don't put people in first responder cars, so they aren't hung up at A&E. They didn't send one of those either.)
Start with A&E. Work from there- vsi people get saved/have their severe pain eased. Then stick a few billion into old people's nursing care- bingo, beds galore. Now the A&E blockers can be admitted.
CG
But NHS inflation runs at a higher level than the general inflation in the economy - so if you keep trying to blindly meet that 'demand' you end up (eventually) with the NHS consuming the entire economic output of the country.
CG
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,065
I fully agree that some priorities seem to be unbalanced, but describing 'not enough money' as a cut seems to me to be intellectually dishonest.
The problem starts with all politicians knowing that to admit openly there never will be funding to do all that is possible is a political suicide note. We need an open and honest debate about what should be the NHS priorities; and whether patients who need treatment caused by their own actions (and how to identify who falls into that category) should self fund, or at least contribute more.
The problem starts with all politicians knowing that to admit openly there never will be funding to do all that is possible is a political suicide note. We need an open and honest debate about what should be the NHS priorities; and whether patients who need treatment caused by their own actions (and how to identify who falls into that category) should self fund, or at least contribute more.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 83
Posts: 697
The NHS has always been a problem to politicians and however much money is thrown at it, it will remain so. Increasing population, increasing elderly population, more medical treatments, the difficulties go on. The added difficulty being the intransigence of the people involved throughout the monster and the power of the GPs. This within a massive bureaucratic enterprise is the kiss of .....
Some countries manage it far better than we do, often at greater expense to the population. It would need a brave and enlightened politician to provide the answer.
Some countries manage it far better than we do, often at greater expense to the population. It would need a brave and enlightened politician to provide the answer.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 69
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by Fitter2
I fully agree that some priorities seem to be unbalanced, but describing 'not enough money' as a cut seems to me to be intellectually dishonest.
The problem starts with all politicians knowing that to admit openly there never will be funding to do all that is possible is a political suicide note. We need an open and honest debate about what should be the NHS priorities; and whether patients who need treatment caused by their own actions (and how to identify who falls into that category) should self fund, or at least contribute more.
The problem starts with all politicians knowing that to admit openly there never will be funding to do all that is possible is a political suicide note. We need an open and honest debate about what should be the NHS priorities; and whether patients who need treatment caused by their own actions (and how to identify who falls into that category) should self fund, or at least contribute more.
I know some will argue that being obese is a disease, and that in a tiny number of cases it may well be, but the majority of people that are obese are so because of their own poor diet choices, and it has been proven that it doesn't cost more to eat healthily than it does to live on junk food, so any argument that it's linked to poverty really doesn't stand up. Poor diet is, much of the time, a personal choice, like smoking or taking drugs, or drinking.
Treating everyone who is obese, a smoker, drug abuser or heavy drinker as if they have a disease seems to me to be just the wrong approach. Some may have an underlying predilection to over-eat, smoke, take drugs or drink, but they will be a small minority. Filtering out those with a genuine medical reason for being like this from those that don't, and then giving priority to treating those with the medical condition, would go a long way to fixing many of the problems, I'm sure.
In case this sounds a bit drastic, I was a heavy smoker and fairly heavy drinker. When the risks to my health were brought home to me following an annual medical when I was 34 years old, and I was given a pretty stern lecture on just how short my life could be if I carried on smoking and drinking to that extent, I stopped smoking and massively cut down on my alcohol intake. I lost weight, found exercise easier and more enjoyable, and my quality of life improved. I suspect that I've probably saved the NHS a fair bit over the 30 odd years since, just as a consequence of that stark warning all those years ago.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 449
... but drug users, alcoholics, smokers and the generally obese AREN'T wanting to do anything other than continue doing what they do.
They need to be "helped" to a better life style that the common sense of the rest of the population guide them to do.
Just how you can persuade people who don't want to change what they do, or to stop them falling back into those habits is the challenge and quite frankly, only those told the brutal truth may change. So do you simply let people self destruct as it were?
They need to be "helped" to a better life style that the common sense of the rest of the population guide them to do.
Just how you can persuade people who don't want to change what they do, or to stop them falling back into those habits is the challenge and quite frankly, only those told the brutal truth may change. So do you simply let people self destruct as it were?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 79
Posts: 16,756
On bed blocking, I bed blocked for over 4 hours when last discharged. At 10am I was cleared to go home, dressed and packed. Left the ward at 1pm to go to the restaurant for lunch and back by 2. Shortly after the pharmacy sent my meds to the ward.
Multiplied up and you have a significant waste of bed space. If I could have got my meds sooner, or gone to an external pharmacy, my bed would have been available sooner.
Multiplied up and you have a significant waste of bed space. If I could have got my meds sooner, or gone to an external pharmacy, my bed would have been available sooner.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,130
Fitter, point of order- I don't think it was me who mentioned cuts was it? I'm on a bit of a rant too- my (family's) experience with the NHS of late has been crap. Maybe time's up?
CG
CG
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by charliegolf
Put another way... is there another first world country that takes 15 hours to get a woman with a broken femur to hospital? (Noted about ambulances getting hung up, but they don't put people in first responder cars, so they aren't hung up at A&E. They didn't send one of those either.)
I recall a programme recently when a person trapped in a car had to wait all night for an emergency ambulance because of demands from people who clearly did not need one but were prioritised.
The UK desperately needs to (a) deal swiftly and painfully with timewasters and others who abuse the ambulance service, (b) give notice to regular callers demanding an ambulance that they will no longer be sent one, and (c) start using common-sense to reject what are clearly unnecessary or inappropriate demands for ambulances, e.g. I have a toothache, am drunk, etc, etc.
Finally the legal system needs to deal without mercy against those who abuse and assault Ambulance staff and who vandalise and steal from them whilst the staff are on a call.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ilmington, Warwickshire
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by DType
I never really understood how boob implants qualified for NHS supply and retrofit, but maybe as a mere man I should not say nothing on such a subject.
Contentious too, but I’ve had cause to visit A&E several times over the years with family members. Not on a Friday or Saturday night, but afternoon/early evening. The place was quiet. We waited and waited and waited. A couple of staff wandered through, had a chat (hopefully work related) No one seemed to be called. A maximum of two, maybe three other patients were also sitting with us. There was no urgency to attend to any of us. To be fair, there was no profuse amounts of blood spreading across the floor or no agonising screaming but in another other business, it’s always considered appropriate not to keep the customer waiting, and if you have to, at least tell them why. It wasn’t busy, there was no emergency, which clearly should take priority but hardly rushed off their feet.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,065
Fitter, point of order- I don't think it was me who mentioned cuts was it? I'm on a bit of a rant too- my (family's) experience with the NHS of late has been crap. Maybe time's up?
CG
CG
It is also the mantra of the Labour party, who left the economy in such a hole that ability to make substantial increases is challenging. They also never provided the NHS with 'enough' money.
The provision of medical services in all their forms is a major problem, and political rhetoric does nothing towards finding solutions.
