Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Smart Meters

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Smart Meters

Old 3rd Jun 2019, 21:25
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
My wife is getting pretty good at reading the energy meter display. She used to ask me if the display reading meant it was OK to stick the washing machine or dishwasher on, but now she just knows that if we're exporting a couple of kW or more then either can go on without costing us anything. Bit like me charging my car up for free; it gives a certain satisfaction knowing that not only have I not paid for the electricity, but I've not paid any tax, either. The latter is more satisfying than the free "fuel"...
VP959 is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 06:50
  #162 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,593
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
The meter will tell you whether your light costs pence per month or pence per minute.
and show SWMBO the direct linkage.

Any way I only have a monitor.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 06:55
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Only occasionally above FL50
Age: 67
Posts: 116
VP959

So does your smart meter home display (not the meter itself) show how much energy you are exporting? Mine doesnít.

I donít have a problem with different tariffs at different times of day. As another poster pointed out, thatís the idea of Economy 7. If it avoids having to run uneconomic power stations to meet the peaks in demand that has to be a good thing. Clearly the tariffs would have to be published so no surprises. My smart meter looks like it could record consumption at 4 different tariff rates.
Andrewgr2 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 07:37
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 46
SSE constantly trying to get me to have one - why?

I can afford and be mindful my payments, use and bills,
I think that I am intelligent enough to save my leccy use where possible - thus I do not need another piece of plastic Chinese made digital kit cluttering up in my home plus connected online 24/7.

Just say no - they serve no purpose to most folk.
rog747 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 07:52
  #165 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,593
Quote]r piece of plastic Chinese made digital kit cluttering up in my home plus connected online 24/7.[/QUOTE]
I wonder how they actually work. We already have millions of mobile phones continually communicating with the cell masts. Now we will have millions more devices also competing for bandwidth.

There has to be a limit on the system. Limits like landline numbers where extra digits were needed. Mobile numbers at 8 digits are already being recycled if not used. IP addresses are also finite in their present form.

​​​
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 08:47
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 317
The "present form" of IP addresses is IPv6, officially ratified two years ago but in use long before then. It allows 2^128 unique addresses. If SMTS2 meters were not designed around IPv6 then someone deserves an almighty kick.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 09:04
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by Andrewgr2 View Post
So does your smart meter home display (not the meter itself) show how much energy you are exporting? Mine doesn’t.

I don’t have a problem with different tariffs at different times of day. As another poster pointed out, that’s the idea of Economy 7. If it avoids having to run uneconomic power stations to meet the peaks in demand that has to be a good thing. Clearly the tariffs would have to be published so no surprises. My smart meter looks like it could record consumption at 4 different tariff rates.
I don't have a "smart" meter. I fitted a home monitoring system that displays lots of stuff, indoor and outdoor temperature and humidity, energy consumption of the heating system and car charge point, GPS derived date and time (with BST/GMT detection), plus our overall energy import/export. "Smart" meters aren't anywhere near as useful in terms of displaying information, IMHO.
VP959 is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 12:38
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: England
Posts: 247
I am due to have a SMETS2 meter fitted by Shell Energy at the end of the month.
They have been phoning me for months now so I have bitten the bullet and agreed.
I will let you know what I think after a few weeks.
Buster15 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 15:31
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
Age: 72
Posts: 1,243
I find it interesting that when they telephone to try to persuade me to have a 'smart meter', they can never answer the question about both EMC immunity and radiated and conducted emissions, or even which standards are being met. OK, you don't expect the salesman to know (although some years back, my wife was buying a washing machine and the salesman knew enough to go and get the information on EMC) but you do expect that when they say that they will get someone knowledgeable to call, you will hear from them. Very few have even heard of SMTS 2 either....Occasionally one will ask why I want to know and when I say that I have a 400 watt amateur radio installation, they have no clue. Still nobody who knows calls back.....

Plus why do they have people who do not want to realise that 3000kWh/year is 3MWh/year? They don't say that a bill is 6200 pence but 62 pounds!
radeng is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 15:52
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
My wife is getting pretty good at reading the energy meter display. She used to ask me if the display reading meant it was OK to stick the washing machine or dishwasher on, but now she just knows that if we're exporting a couple of kW or more then either can go on without costing us anything. Bit like me charging my car up for free; it gives a certain satisfaction knowing that not only have I not paid for the electricity, but I've not paid any tax, either. The latter is more satisfying than the free "fuel"...
My bold. But surely you have to bear in mind the capital cost of the original kit and installation? Or have you amortised this down to zero already?
yellowtriumph is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 16:17
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
My bold. But surely you have to bear in mind the capital cost of the original kit and installation? Or have you amortised this down to zero already?
We've had the PV installation in the roof for over five years now, and it will have paid for itself within the next couple of years, not counting the car charging saving. The car is just a car, which I bought as much for its performance and capability as for the fact that it's electric. I can't really see what else needs to be amortised.
VP959 is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 16:33
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
Age: 72
Posts: 1,243
When all vehicles are electric and people have their own windmills and PV installations, what taxes will be introduced to cover the shortfall in government income from not having the duty/tax on petrol and diesel?
radeng is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 16:42
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
We've had the PV installation in the roof for over five years now, and it will have paid for itself within the next couple of years, not counting the car charging saving. The car is just a car, which I bought as much for its performance and capability as for the fact that it's electric. I can't really see what else needs to be amortised.
I wasn't suggesting you need to write the car down to zero! I was merely stating that whilst you charge the car with your own electricity it can't be 'free' unless you've reduced the capital expenditure and installation costs of your PV install down to zero. You've answered the question by stating that the install will be written down to zero in the next couple of years - Great! I'm almost jealous. I would have done the same but we lived in a thatched property and as you can imagine it wasn't really a goer.
yellowtriumph is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 16:45
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by radeng View Post
When all vehicles are electric and people have their own windmills and PV installations, what taxes will be introduced to cover the shortfall in government income from not having the duty/tax on petrol and diesel?
I do muse on this myself. If I reduce my energy consumption by 50% then obviously my energy bills will reduce pro-rata (sort of, barring standing charges etc). Seems to imply the income to the energy suppliers will reduce by 50% too, and their profits by 50%? They aren't going to stand for that so I foresee a time whereby I will be paying the same amount as now for half the electricity. (And please, let us not get involved in discussions about saving the planet which is another topic altogether).
yellowtriumph is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 17:14
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
I wasn't suggesting you need to write the car down to zero! I was merely stating that whilst you charge the car with your own electricity it can't be 'free' unless you've reduced the capital expenditure and installation costs of your PV install down to zero. You've answered the question by stating that the install will be written down to zero in the next couple of years - Great! I'm almost jealous. I would have done the same but we lived in a thatched property and as you can imagine it wasn't really a goer.
We were building a new house, so it made sense to fit 25 PV panels into the south side of the roof, as by fitting them into the roof we avoided having to put slate there. That saved a fair proportion of the cost of the panels, plus the whole installation was zero rated for VAT (as it was part of a new house) and we just managed to get the system up and running before the higher rate of Feed in Tariff disappeared. We get around £1,000 a year from the FiT and electricity export payments, and save around £300 a year in electricity cost (before I got the electric car, the saving's a bit more now). The PV system net cost was about £8,000, and so far we've had about £5,000 in FiT and export payments, plus around another £600 or so in electricity cost savings (we've only saved on the bill since we moved in), so another couple of years should see the PV system break even, perhaps less if I start including the saving from charging the car.
VP959 is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 17:24
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,428
Originally Posted by Andrewgr2 View Post
So does your smart meter home display (not the meter itself)
Ah, what is a "meter"?

Turns out that something without a display isn't a "meter", so even if you put an electricity metering chip in your street light you can't use it to pay for your supply under the rules for metered supplies, because it reports its readings by radio, there's no display you can read from a cherry-picker.

Time for the law to catch up. (Unless it has in the last couple of years since I was in that business.)
Gertrude the Wombat is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 21:13
  #177 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,593
Originally Posted by radeng View Post
When all vehicles are electric and people have their own windmills and PV installations, what taxes will be introduced to cover the shortfall in government income from not having the duty/tax on petrol and diesel?
Easy. I was reading about the Tesla. All electric no VED, win-win, or not?

Not. LCT of £310/year for five years. - luxury car tax.

Politicians and their Treasury CS have no problem converting tax free into revenue.

They will switch to road pricing or increased excise duty. After all it is already a con adding luxury car tax to an already expensive luxury car where you pay more excise duty.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 11:53
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
Age: 72
Posts: 1,243
There were reports a year or so back that some loads - I believe with electronic power factor correction - led to the smart meter getting confused and reporting a much higher consumption than was actually used. This seems to have gone very quiet - does anyone know if the problem has gone away or is that still the case?
radeng is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 12:13
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by radeng View Post
There were reports a year or so back that some loads - I believe with electronic power factor correction - led to the smart meter getting confused and reporting a much higher consumption than was actually used. This seems to have gone very quiet - does anyone know if the problem has gone away or is that still the case?
I believe the spec includes being able to do kVA measurement as well as kW measurement, so it seems possible that anyone with non-unity PF loads could find themselves billed on the basis of kVA, rather than kW. I think that industrial users have been billed on the basis of kVA used, rather than kW used, for some time, so this would just be bringing domestic metering into line with that, perhaps.

As far as the distribution network is concerned it has to be rated on the basis of maximum kVA, rather than maximum kW, so it seems reasonably fair to bill on this basis. If this does happen then I can see there being a growing market for PF correction devices, which in itself is no bad thing.
VP959 is online now  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 14:16
  #180 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,593
Except some of us can work out the difference between a 60w bulb and a 3kW kettle, but VA?
Pontius Navigator is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.