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Masons In Distress!

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Masons In Distress!

Old 14th Feb 2018, 11:56
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bnt View Post
Not that I'll be joining any time soon, since I crash head first in to rule #3 in their Laws & Constitution:
The first condition of admission into, and membership of, the Order is a belief in the Supreme Being. This is essential and admits of no compromise.
I have no problem with their rule#3 provided that they are happy to accept that the Supreme Being is me (or more probably my wife)

PDR
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 12:16
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
Does that make the RAF Club a secret society ...
Not very. If you walk in off the street as a non-member the conversation goes like this:

"I'm here for the such-and-such dinner."
"It's in the such-and-such room, do you know your way?"
"Yes."
"Fine, off you go then."
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 12:18
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Surely the main thing which distinguishes the members of any organisation are the nature of the vows that they have to make in order to join and the seriousness with which they make and keep them. The vows one makes to join the military, to Queen and Country, are extremely serious, and are enforceable by law. The Masonic vows are imposed superstitiously under threat of something horrible happening to you should one break them. Presumably, Lodges are a bit like churches in that some take all that more seriously than others.

Some years ago the Churchwarden of my local Anglican church was a Mason. The vicar tried to persuade him in vain to give up Masonry. As far as I know he was an excellent Warden and supported the Vicar wholeheartedly but remained a Mason. When the vicar left to go to pastures new, his replacement insisted that the Warden had to make a choice, Church or Masonry. He chose the latter and left the church.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 12:33
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I have no problem accepting that many Masons are honest and upright citizens, who contribute to charitable works and never take advantage of their membership to either give themselves an advantage or to disadvantage someone who is not a member.

I do have a problem with the irrefutable fact that SOME Masons don't behave like this, and use their membership of the organisation in order to further their own aims, and some put their loyalty to fellow Masons above their loyalty to their employer, even when that employer is the Crown. It seems that this is an issue that the main organisation that runs Freemasonry in the UK is either unable to, or has little interest in, bring under control or stamp out. If we heard a bit more about Masons that had been thrown out for using their membership as a way to further their own interests then perhaps the organisation as a whole might improve it's public image a bit.

Last edited by VP959; 14th Feb 2018 at 12:46. Reason: typo
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 12:36
  #45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
KnC, you make an interesting point.

Since I lump all these clubs & religions basically in the same pile, I would have no problem in treating any of them the same. If I see a bishop in his robes, a rabbi or a muslim cleric dressed up I feel exactly the same as when I see a freemason, scientologist or morris dancer. To me they are merely adults in clubs dressing up.

I would suggest all these groups have higher level members that feel they are important and are felt to be important by the other members. There does seem to be some that are held in higher esteem than others however even by non-members.

Would I get away with ridiculing all of them publicly? I doubt it.

So what makes some sacred and others fair game?
There's a significant difference between those who display the sartorial aspect of their respective faiths in public and those who dress to conform within a secretive and insular organisation.

Trust me however when I say the one in particular is more than fair game.....and I'm always happy to indulge myself and oblige.

And you can knock morris dancers of the list. My mates one and it's basically dancing followed by, if not sometimes preceded by......an extended visit to a pub .
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 13:00
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
And you are right about morris dancers, there used to be a competition in the small village in Yorkshire where I grew up. The real ale sales went through the roof that weekend. Not as much as the annual Harley Davidson rally though.
I worked alongside a chap that was a Morris Dancer. During the summer he'd invariably come into work on a Monday morning with a massive hangover. The other "feature" of Morris Dancers is that they seemed to be a bit of a promiscuous lot, if this chap was anything to go by. It wouldn't be at all unusual to hear him complaining about being unable to drink, due to the medication he was taking for one STD or other..............
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 13:14
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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The real ale sales went through the roof that weekend. Not as much as the annual Harley Davidson rally though.
A local bar and Harley owner has a rally here every year at Pentecost.
He says his booze takings go down that day due to the Police Municipale being just round the corner and tourists being scared off by a tribe of hairy, leather clad bikers.
He is not too worried as the mark up on soft drinks and bottled water is much higher than beer.
In the nine years I have been here I have never heard of any trouble.


Last edited by sitigeltfel; 14th Feb 2018 at 13:20. Reason: Photo added
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 13:35
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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A bit daft being scared of Harley riders these days, most of em are over 50 lawyers, doctors etc or retired old softies
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 13:36
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Mr. Wiggin: ...I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage.... You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement,... you whining hypocritical toadies with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding masonic secret handshakes. You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards. Well I wouldn't become a Freemason now if you went down on your lousy stinking knees and begged me.
Client 2: We're sorry you feel that way, but we did want a block of flats, nice though the abattoir is.
Mr. Wiggin: Oh sod the abattoir, that's not important. (He dashes forward and kneels in front of them.) But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a mason. Masonry opens doors. I'd be very quiet, I was a bit on edge just now but if I were a mason I'd sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.
Client 1: (politely) Thank you.
Mr. Wiggin: ...I've got a second-hand apron.
Client 2: Thank you. (Mr. Wiggin hurries to the door but stops...)
Mr. Wiggin: I nearly got in at Hendon.
Client 1: Thank you.



From Python's "Architect's Sketch"....
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 17:13
  #50 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Same goes for Rotary clubs? What are they and what is the point?
I will rise to the challenge and try and keep it brief.

There are 1.2 million men and women world wide. They actively seek members and people can apply. They support charities and run projects locally and world wide.

As an example they run projects at least one club in the donor country and a club in a receiving country. The latter Rotarians are responsible for delivering the project. The whole, especially financial expenditure, is then monitored by Rotary in Chicago. The funding model has NO OVERHEADS for administration and all monies go to delivery of the project.

It flag ship programme is eradication of Polio.

The point? It brings people with ideas and vision together with others who can deliver the ideal.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:14
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
But lets take another example

Membership lists of the Royal Air Force Club are not available to the general public (ie they are "secret").

I have absolutely no doubt that business deals have been carried out in those rooms at the Club set aside for meetings (by definition these deals would exclude non members)

Does that make the RAF Club a secret society whose members are intent on mutual backscratching? No of course not - but it obviously does go on on occasion. Same could be said of many Masonic lodges.
Does requirement of membership of RAFC requires one to have served in RAF ?
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:24
  #52 (permalink)  
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RAF promotion to Air Rank

Is membership a prerequisite? Word out there is that it may very well be. Anyone care to comment?

IG

Last edited by ImageGear; 14th Feb 2018 at 19:08.
 
Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:31
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ilmington, Warwickshire
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And Rotary club members don’t have silly, secret codes and don’t have a problem being publicly known as members and as far as I know, have never used their membership to avoid justice.

True story from 30 years ago. Ex wife’s family were from South Wales. Many of the (male) locals in her town were members. Her uncle, who ran a rural hotel, was a chief wizard or whatever they are called. Late one night whilst we were staying in the place, a car came hurtling around a country lane, misjudged the corner, flipped and came to a halt in a shower of sparks on its roof. We all rushed out to the drivers aid but luckily, he was fine - except, once he had been helped out of the car, it was clear he was so p****d, he could hardly walk, let alone drive a car. A decision was made, to my complete puzzlement, that there was no need to call the emergency services, that the driver was fine and least said about it, the better.

Turns out that this scrote was a leading light in the local Masonic community and that the publicity wouldn’t be good for his business. Sorry, but I’m not for aiding and abetting, even a member of my family, someone that was so [email protected] that they could endanger other road users. Only by the grace of god was no one coming the other way.

That’s why I have no time for the Masons.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:57
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
And you can knock morris dancers of the list. My mates one and it's basically dancing followed by, if not sometimes preceded by......an extended visit to a pub .
Wot, Morris dances who actually leave the pub to do their dancing?

Much more sensible is one of our local groups who rehearse in the pub garden, no need to leave the pub at all.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 05:35
  #55 (permalink)  
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Same goes for Rotary clubs? What are they and what is the point?



And don't think for a minute that if you were a member of Rotary and turned up for an interview, where members of the panel were also Rotary, it wouldn't enhance you chances over non-Rotary members, you can substitute just about any club or organisation's name for 'Rotary', it is human nature to support a fellow member of an organisation. Not a Mason but my late FinL was and a straighter person you would not ever meet. Because they are a society that has secrets they are most often blamed for what is frequently individual failure, it is just too easy, just say, "Funny handshake" and be immediately absolved of all blame when something like a promotion or job application didn't come off. Always make sure you have someone else to blame! Don't think I have ever read so much rubbish in one thread of PPRuNe since I joined twenty years ago.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:20
  #56 (permalink)  
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In the mid eighties I was just getting to sleep one night when I could hear the distinctive sound of an RX7 [which lived not far from us] coming home from the Pub out near the airport, mighty revs, great downshifts and then that sound as a car leaves the ground and hits something very hard.
We went to have a look, the driver was OK but his tools of trade - maybe a brickie or stonemason were spread out around the smashed up car. Daughter took one look and said the Mason is a Rotarian.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 08:13
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
Don't think I have ever read so much rubbish in one thread of PPRuNe since I joined twenty years ago.
Well this is Jet Blast, after all.

But thank you for your anecdotal evidence that there has been at least one honourable Mason, that swings it for me.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 08:24
  #58 (permalink)  
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Parabellum, I visited one Rotary Club. First off, no need for identity cards etc but there is a subtle form of questioning, much as in any profession to check if you are an imposter.

On your second point, the President had come directly from court where he was a magistrate. He had removed his Rotary pin so as not to suggest any favouritism.

Final point, a Rotarian, a 'very important man' and possibly a Mason, was on a DD charge. He tried to retain his licence as he was a 'very importy person' doing charity work. He got off lightly with a 14 month ban (well deserved)
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 08:54
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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I was surprised once to see a friend suddenly sporting a ring showing membership in the Masons. I asked him what was up with that, since we were both young CFIs, somewhat non-serious, and very much non-joiners of anything such as Kiwanis, Rotary International, or the local bowling club.

My friend just shot a sideways glance at the guy behind the counter, the guy who did the rostering, the guy who decided who upgraded, that sort of thing. Oh, yeah ... he was a Mason, as were several others in middle management! So this must have been just one more way to get ahead, for him, something that "could not hurt."

I had already been mobbed up with the Roman Catholic Church as a young man, something I was trying to get over, so that I thought joining the Masons was out for several good reasons, no matter how much it might have improved my chances at that little job. Dating the boss's daughter ditto; I have to eat with these hands.

On a much more serious note, have you all forgotten about "Propaganda Due" in Italy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

Outlaw biker clubs ... don't get me started. There was a recent case here in Germany against a group of Mongols. (The Mongols self-present as one-percenters, bad-ass bikers in competition with the Hells Angels and the Bandidos for control of drugs and prostitution and all that sort of dubious stuff.) It came out in court testimony that only one of the six Mongols on trial actually had a driving license for motorcycles!

There's a start-up German outlaw club for Turks called Osmanen Germania that has flat skipped the "biker" bit, even though some take them for a biker club: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4...n-germania-876 You will notice that their Kutten do not have that little square patch reading "MC" for "Motorcycle Club." There's no pretense there of being into biking, which makes a nice change, I suppose.

Last edited by chuks; 15th Feb 2018 at 09:11.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 10:34
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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I was signed into an RAOB Lodge once.

Am I tarnished?

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