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Masons In Distress!

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Masons In Distress!

Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:10
  #21 (permalink)  
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All this, and we see frightened and distraught mothers prosecuted for perverting the course of justice with a simple lie, while certain people are clearly above the law.

Years later when my little son was 6'2" and working in a pub, he mentioned the matey bond between one of the investigating officers and my assailants.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:14
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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My wife's Uncle is very high up in his Lodge and has just been to the Palace of Westminster for another promotion. He is also a 'big wheel' in his local church. He even wears religious garb at services.
As a Catholic, and a divorcee, he has never really treated me with anything but the minimum of courtesy.
I went to their 40th Wedding Anniversary and the guest list was full of bankers and Coppers.
Say no more.
A bunch of bigots and back-scratchers who hide behind some kind of religious/charitable smoke screen.
Unfortunately, they have some very very high level patronage and that also makes them dangerous.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:29
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by artschool View Post
if being a mason is so great why doesn't everyone join?
'Cos you have to believe in a magic sky fairy. They don't care which one, but if you don't believe in any at all you don't qualify.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:47
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Masons, pah. Get yourself a Roma girlfriend, I've got 24/7 bodyguard protecton, and get plenty of other benefits.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:48
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ex Cargo Clown View Post
I've got 24/7 bodyguard protecton
Her sisters?

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Old 13th Feb 2018, 18:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WilliumMate View Post
Her sisters?
The young Roma girl babysitter we once had kept snakes. And then left to move to Canada as she couldn't get the weapons training she wanted in the UK.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 18:25
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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As a Catholic, and a divorcee, he has never really treated me with anything but the minimum of courtesy.
I think that says more about your uncle as a person than as a Freemason. I get really sick of putting people right when they say that Freemasons don't accept Catholics. This may be a misconception dating from when the Roman Catholic Church forbade its members from becoming Freemasons, not the other way around, and in fact although I am a bit rusty regarding the current policy, I think it is likely that the church is still not keen on members joining the craft.

In my own case I was welcomed into our lodge, as was another Catholic, an Italian, who oddly was also a (stone) mason! We also had Jews, and protestants of all types as well, The only ones who could not join were those who could not profess belief in what Gertrude the Wombat rather tiresomely insists on referring to a magic sky fairy. That's another JB cliche which has been flogged to death, along with "huggy fluffy!

TTN - bigot and backscratcher (apparently)
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 19:43
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Clearly hit something of a raw nerve - perhaps you might discuss it with the great architect...

Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
TTN - bigot and backscratcher (apparently)
Well they do say that the first step is recognising you have a problem...



PDR
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 19:52
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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From what I have read, the Masons have apparently never had a prohibition on Catholics.

The reverse can not be said, however. Up until 1983, excommunication. Since 1983 it gets more complicated, depending upon what country you're in, who's the bishop, whether you are or aren't involved in the church, level of involvement with Freemasonry, and on and on and on.

Regardless, the Catholic Church pretty clearly doesn't think the Masons are merely a dining and social club.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 20:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I did wonder where was TTN, when you needed him. To my profund disappointment, he only managed to point out a bit of trivia. Interesting but useless information. I thought he was really going to tear us all apart there for moment. You can't defend the indefenceable. Any other breathen on board to refute any of the posts on this thread?

Last edited by Dan_Brown; 13th Feb 2018 at 21:01.
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Old 13th Feb 2018, 22:24
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Um... lifting... View Post

Regardless, the Catholic Church pretty clearly doesn't think the Masons are merely a dining and social club.
For once I agree with the Catholics, although maybe for different reasons...

A cynic might wonder if they found there was simply too much competition for small boys from an establishment seemingly immune to prosecution and easily able to hang out to dry any of the opposition found to be transgressing or trespassing on others' turf (or kids homes) etc etc.

I couldn't possibly say if that was true or not but ....
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 00:00
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Dan Brown, I rather thought that signing off as a bigot and backscratcher indicated what I felt about that general description. Maybe the irony was lost on some

But lets take another example

Membership lists of the Royal Air Force Club are not available to the general public (ie they are "secret").

I have absolutely no doubt that business deals have been carried out in those rooms at the Club set aside for meetings (by definition these deals would exclude non members)

Does that make the RAF Club a secret society whose members are intent on mutual backscratching? No of course not - but it obviously does go on on occasion. Same could be said of many Masonic lodges.

Regardless, the Catholic Church pretty clearly doesn't think the Masons are merely a dining and social club.
With regard to the Catholic Church's attitude to Freemasonry, there can be little doubt there are, or at least have been, some very sinister branches of Freemasonry in both Italy and Spain, both predominantly Catholic countries and this may well have led to the Church's attitude to Freemasonry in those countries. Upon joining, English Freemasons are advised on which Masonic lodges they may visit or associate with and which they must avoid Many to be avoided are in those countries mentioned, but nearer to home no Freemason is permitted to join or attend meetings of the Orange Order. The fact that this last refers to its members as masons has definitely led to confusion, with some people conflating the two organisations. Nothing could be further than the truth. English Freemasonry has nothing to do with the sectarian organisation known as the Orange Order.

Most of the critical remarks made on here have either been unsupported assertions or anecdotal evidence - absolutely nothing concrete. I could go on but it would get tedious. In any case I am well used to "preaching" to people whose minds are made up and don't want to be confused with facts.

The word "bigots" springs to mind!
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 07:37
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
Most of the critical remarks made on here have either been unsupported assertions or anecdotal evidence - absolutely nothing concrete.
I can assure you that I had evidence that the actions of my old head of lab were directly related to him being a Mason and trying to honour a promise he'd made to a fellow Mason. When I finally confronted him with what I had been told he admitted it, giving me a lecture about loyalty that was clear confirmation that he felt greater loyalty to his brother Masons than he did to his employer. He saw nothing at all wrong in what he'd done at all.

I'm not saying that Freemasonry itself is the cause of his behaviour, but it does provide an environment where behaviour like this can flourish. I'm sure other clubs may well occasionally have members who use them for their mutual advantage, too, but Freemasonry is both more widespread, and has vows that inherently bind it's members together, in a way that few other organisations do.

I've no idea what efforts the organisation as a whole takes to tackle cronyism and the like, as that also seems secret. There is a general view that the organisation turns a blind eye to the way SOME masons behave, though, and that may well be interpreted by some as it being condoned.

Personally, the actions of one Mason set my career back for a couple of years, something that was officially noted by the chairman of the promotion board I eventually appeared before. He wrote a letter to my head of lab asking why I'd not been put forward to the board earlier. All that did was get me in more hot water as when the bloke received the letter he came and had a rant at me for making him appear incompetent............
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 07:39
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
But lets take another example

Membership lists of the Royal Air Force Club are not available to the general public (ie they are "secret").

I have absolutely no doubt that business deals have been carried out in those rooms at the Club set aside for meetings (by definition these deals would exclude non members)
I have been to business meetings in an RAF Club meeting room, and I am not a member - I was invited as a guest. So your premise falls down at the first challenge.

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Old 14th Feb 2018, 08:53
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Because you have to be invited, normally. Unless things have changed, they do not normally allow people to put themselves forward for membership.
Here in Ireland, the Grand Lodge says:
Many people assume that to become a Freemason, one must be invited to join. This is not correct. In fact, while members might encourage their friends to join, they do not typically recruit or invite candidates for membership.

A person who is interested in joining is encouraged to simply ask a member. Even if you don’t know a member and wish to join, email us here and a member of Grand Lodge Staff will be happy to deal with your enquiry.
Not that I'll be joining any time soon, since I crash head first in to rule #3 in their Laws & Constitution:
The first condition of admission into, and membership of, the Order is a belief in the Supreme Being. This is essential and admits of no compromise.
i.e. "stupid atheists" (their words) need not apply.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 09:16
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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It's a secret club, it can produce any sort of PR bollox it wants too, how can you prove it stands by what it proclaims to do and be?....you can't.
I know a 2 Masons (perhaps more but they havn't de-cloaked), I would describe the character of both of them as controlling and mendacious.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 09:39
  #37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
I have been to business meetings in an RAF Club meeting room, and I am not a member - I was invited as a guest. So your premise falls down at the first challenge.

PDR
Indeed in the 60s, when lunchtime drinking was the norm, the bar used to be packed with members and earwigging journalists. Chapman Pincher was the primary source of information and the Daily Express the first paper to be read of a morning.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 10:47
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I resign

Not from Freemasonry (although in fact I am not an active member and not currently member if a lodge) but from the thread. Banging your head against a brick wall loses its attraction after a while. Meanwhile brother Masons will continue to dress up and perform rather silly rituals just for the fun of it, enjoy convivial meals with a few drinks afterwards, and carry out a lot of charitable works (including £1.3 million donated to air ambulances in the last 10 years). Not a lot different from being in the armed forces really (funny uniforms, symbolic swords, parades and mess nights) but with rather more charity work.

Must get my apron out of the cupboard and check the moths haven't been at it

Worshipful brother TTN
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 11:47
  #39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
You keep comparing the armed forces to the Masons but the armed forces is a job. You get paid for it.

I am genuinely interested in what makes people want to go through any of the dressing up etc? Giving to Charity is a good thing but why the need for the secrecy and funny handshakes?

Same goes for Rotary clubs? What are they and what is the point?
In one sense, there is a strong correlation between the military and the masons. The former have long had cadres that are mendacious controlling and duplicitous along with supporting each other when required.

For civilians, the attraction ( in addition to the above traits ) seems to be about social standing and "status". Certainly the ones I am currently aware of are very much controlling, or they try to be, and promote a public façade which is always courteous to cover this up.

The beauty of the one I mentioned is, that, he's so obsessed with himself and his "importance " ( along with being basically thick ) he presents endless opportunities to take the proverbial out of being incapable of understanding people are doing so.

Our encounters can be quite entertaining really.....for me..... and others within earshot given he's universally detested.

I can think of one MRO however, who, in effect were presented with an almost wide open opportunity to make a lot of money. Lets just say the "management " were more concerned with social standing and entertaining than maintaining aircraft and guess what happened to the MRO as a result.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 11:49
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Well tanker, thanks for putting your head adove the pulpit. It's always better to try and fail, than not try at all.
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