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1 mph over the limit?

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1 mph over the limit?

Old 2nd Feb 2018, 22:49
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1 mph over the limit?

A UK police chief has announced that he wishes to end the 10% leeway so motorists are prosecuted even 1 mph above the speed limit. Let me say first, I don't condone speeding, particularly in residential areas. But when street crime like scooter robberies, drug dealing is rampant due to "insufficient resources" is this really the right priority?
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 22:59
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Oh, that is easy. You are under the mistaken belief that law enforcement is there to protect you from crimes. It's actually about revenue generation for the local government... with a secondary function of protecting you from crime.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 23:29
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Protecting us from crime is surely a little further down the list.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 01:25
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OK, so if he tries to do you for 1mph over the limit you ask for the specifications for the measuring equipment that prove that it is capable of achieving that accuracy. Perhaps modern stuff is, but my understanding for the old 10% leeway was because it removed all doubt as to the measurement error.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 01:56
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the old 10% leeway was because it removed all doubt as to the measurement error
We went through this argument in Oz when they tried to implement lower exceedances. The Oz rule, same as Europe apparently, says,
For a vehicle travelling at a true speed of 100km/h, the speedo must read between 100km/h and 114km/h. The effect of this is that many drivers will find that at 100km/h they are driving up to 14km/h below the speed limit if they rely on the vehicle’s speedo.
https://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-dri...peedo-accuracy
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 02:57
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This always reminds me of when I got a speedo reading of 200 mph on the main runway (RAF Marham) during a club trackday. The V-box on the dashboard gave me a disappointing satellite reading of only 179 mph, however.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 04:34
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A customer of mine once picked up a ticket fir 35 in a 30. With him being an old codger I was dubious. Then we had his Focus 2.0 Ghia in for a service. When I drove it we seemed to be going quite fast for the speed indicated. It turned out to have been fitted with a 1.6 speedo drive matched to the lower geared car. It was reading about 12% slow.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 06:13
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Chief Constables such as this one are getting above their station and needed to be reminded that their primary task is to prevent REAL crime and to track down criminals, not harass the law-abiding going about their daily business and pleasure.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 07:05
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
A UK police chief has announced that he wishes to end the 10% leeway so motorists are prosecuted even 1 mph above the speed limit.
No, he didn't. The "1 mph" was made up by the Daily Mail.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 07:16
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I really can't see a problem with this at all. All cars have, by law, a -0%. +10% tolerance on the speedometer and have had for decades. In other words, even with worn and under-inflated tyres the speedometer cannot possibly read low. In practice all speedometers over-read, because it suits the manufacturers to have cars that give optimistic speed displays and covers them in the event of someone running on near-bald and under-inflated tyres.

My car reads a constant +10% below 50mph and then a constant 5mph above it's true speed above 50mph. It's a very well known characteristic, every car of this model I've owned has been the same and there are lots of comments on the relevant forums discussing it. It's easy to see this as the speed on the GPS is always lower than the speedometer reading.

So, if I drive at a steady indicated 30mph, in reality the car is really going at around 27mph, well within the 30mph speed limit. Even if I were to let the speed creep up a bit, to an indicated 31 or 32 mph I'd still be inside the 30mph limit.

I can't see what's wrong with removing what is an ancient rule that dates back to a time when car speedometers were pretty inaccurate, driven by a spinning magnet and a spring loaded alloy induction cup. Just how many cars are there on the road today that still have these old and potentially inaccurate cable driven speedometers, and how many of that small number are likely to be defective so that they under-read?

We're all getting our "speeding allowance" via our car speedometers under-reading, and I see no need at all to have an additional 10% "speeding allowance" added to that. The fact remains that speed has a more effect on accident outcomes than pretty much anything else, thanks to simple physics. The accident impact energy is proportional to the square of the vehicle speed, so a few miles an hour slower can make the difference between a survivable and a non-survivable impact, especially in a 20mph or 30mph zone, where the impact may well be with a pedestrian or cyclist.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 07:21
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
Chief Constables such as this one are getting above their station and needed to be reminded that their primary task is to prevent REAL crime and to track down criminals, not harass the law-abiding going about their daily business and pleasure.
Wingers.....couldn't agree more old boy about those in authority, albeit " some time ago ".

It was a well established practice ( for some of us ) to get from West to East on the peri track at HM's Cat A Gulag ( or St.Athan if you prefer ) in the early evening and certainly on Friday when ATC had shut down by attempting to get to an indicated 100mph + ....this one did, several times, but then one summers evening, a little Mini appeared with a blue light and containing a RAF plod ( never noted for intellectual capability ) who accused one of speeding !.....however, when asked to provide the evidence to this scurrilous claim, and with one helpfully mentioning as to how he recorded my alleged speed, one was subjected to dire threats as to ones future.

Not that these had any effect...
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 08:07
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Problem is, most people will be concentrationing or dwelling on their speed, to the detriment of actually doing what they're suppossed to be doing. That is driving the effin vehicale. Bit like flying VFR and no lookout. The lot that propose this, are total imbecles.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 08:15
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Originally Posted by Mostly Harmless View Post
Oh, that is easy. You are under the mistaken belief that law enforcement is there to protect you from crimes. It's actually about revenue generation for the local government... with a secondary function of protecting you from crime.
Do tell how this works then - in 14 years in local government I and my colleagues never discovered how to get our hands on a single penny from any such source.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 08:17
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
Chief Constables such as this one are getting above their station and needed to be reminded that their primary task is to prevent REAL crime and to track down criminals, not harass the law-abiding going about their daily business and pleasure.
You can remind yours any time you like, through the usual channels - most police priorities are set locally, so if local people want speeding at the top of the list that's what they get, or if they want gun crime at the top of the list that's what they get.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 08:18
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Problem is, most people will be concentrationing or dwelling on their speed
Not me, it's a fraction of a second to flick the cruise control on, job done.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 08:55
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Problem is, most people will be concentrationing or dwelling on their speed, to the detriment of actually doing what they're suppossed to be doing. That is driving the effin vehicale. Bit like flying VFR and no lookout. The lot that propose this, are total imbecles.
So basically, what you're saying is that drivers in a 30mph zone should be allowed to drive at up to an indicated 36mph (the +10% built-in to the speedometer, plus the 10% "enforcement allowance") because they are so crap at driving that they cannot maintain their speed?

Ever flown a glider? If you have you will know full well that it's second nature to hold best glide speed within about +/- 1kt without looking down at the ASI. In fact looking at the ASI is a near-certain recipe for drifting away from the desired speed very quickly.

I see no reason whatsoever why car drivers shouldn't be able to stay within the current +10% allowance on their speedometer. Any that can't frankly shouldn't be on the road, IMHO.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 09:01
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I recall this coming up about 15 years ago having been instigated by a particularly righteous chief constable. The result was him being trailed by the tabloids until one caught his driver (with him in the car) doing 34 in a 30 zone. It sort of faded away after that.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 09:02
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I don't condone speeding but...

I'm not a racist but...

I don't get my opinions from the Mail but...
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 09:06
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Not me, it's a fraction of a second to flick the cruise control on, job done.
I use cruise a lot; much more than the average driver I suspect.

Pulling away from lights with cruise pre-set from previous sector is no problem, just flick cruise while accelerating and getting close to target speed as judged or confirmed from speedo. Let cruise capture target speed.

Similar process for new sector with different speed limit. Accelerate manually to near target speed as judged and confirmed from speedo. I can normally judge pretty close, may go over a tad on occasions but not a major hassle. Flick cruise and then adjust up, or very occasionally down, as required.

No problem; no tickets. What's the difficulty in that?
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 09:07
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Road safety or revenue collection?

We just got a letter from Zams, Tyrol, Austria yesterday. It was about a speeding offense, sent to my wife since she's the registered owner of the family car.

Her car is a BMW 330xd that's geared to do 245 kmh (152 mph) on the clock, which is of course something less on the road, and our son had borrowed that car to "go sledding in Ischgl" with some Russian bint he had met on the slopes during our family ski holiday in Galtür.

I was expecting something very special, but it seems that he was zapped doing 88 kmh in a tunnel zoned for 80, 55 mph instead of 50. What is the matter with today's youth?! You call that "speeding"? Speeding is doing 162, 100 mph on the clock! We loan him this powerful car with a twin-turbo diesel and all-wheel-drive and this is the best he can do?

On the other hand, the Austrian authorities want 30 euros for that, so that's okay; that's serious money for being just 5 mph too fast. (If being over by 10% costs 30 euros, one wonders what a righteous 100% exceedance should cost.)

The Austrians nailed a German biker for going around a curve with his wheels on the correct side of the solid white line but his head over there on the wrong side. No traffic, no particular risk, not even speeding, but, yes, the head over the white line so that if a log truck had been coming the other way and the biker had not thought to move his head out of the way then he could have been decapitated or something.

Thank Christ we have the police looking out for us.

I am sure that my son will have learned his lesson from this: If you are going to be ticketed for speeding then, FFS, put up some big numbers!

There was this unfortunate German (them again) who used a tunnel in Hamburg to go to and from work on his motorcycle. This tunnel has a Blitzgerät that uses an invisible flash so as not to blind motorists in that relatively dark tunnel. Too, this is one of the older machines that only shows the offending motorist and his number plate from the front. (In Germany they need also to see your face as evidence; merely showing your number plate is not enough.) Motorcycles usually escape detection because of the lack of a front number plate, but ....

Our happy biker ended up being blitzed about 170 times, each time unaware of that because of the invisible flash from the machine. Same bike, same biker, same time of day on each image, so that the cops finally put a cop on a bike there in the tunnel one day, when they intercepted him. The biker seems to be in a bit of trouble now.

Germans have this tic that makes them hate to see anyone get away with anything. Denunciation is ingrained in German society for this reason. Radar traps that fail to catch bikes because of that lack of a front number plate have thus been a major annoyance to your average boxhead, and for years.

Now the filth are using a more modern device that takes two pictures, one from the front and another from the back. (This thing is a grey, cylindrical column with two dark bands, about five feet high, planted by the side of the road.) Too, the Germans are now starting with the same "average speed devices" that rely on the reading of the number plate at two different locations that you have in the UK. Undetectable, unbeatable, unless your name is "Bond, James Bond," and you remember to flip to a different plate on your Aston Martin DB5.

Here in the Fatherland there shall be no more partial immunity for bikers; we shall all be in it together.

Sallyann, I do get my opinions from the Daily Mail. You have a problem with that, or what?

Last edited by chuks; 3rd Feb 2018 at 09:19.
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