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WW2 - what if the Nazis had won?

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WW2 - what if the Nazis had won?

Old 18th Jan 2018, 16:57
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WW2 - what if the Nazis had won?

How would Europe look now? Would the UK be part of a German dominated European super-state? Would we be slaves, or would we be paying through the nose to lease Audi's and BMW's?
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 16:59
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It was not possible for them to win.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:18
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
It was not possible for them to win.
If V1, V2, Me262 had a little more time, if the Pearl Harbour didn't happen, if Hitler had not attacked Russia - all sorts of thing could have been different.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:20
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There would be a lot more dead Germans.
Then me, sooner or later..
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:20
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Had they won? German rule over Europe much the way the Soviet Union ruled over the Eastern Bloc. Needless to say, about 12,000,000 Jews dead plus probably another 4,000,000 disbled, Roma, blacks. And what about Russia? How many of them dead? Would Russia still be a separate country.

I suspect that the answer is as Trossie said. In the end, they would have been overwhelmed by numbers, just as the communists in the eastern bloc eventually were defeated. But assuming a win over the UK, followed by a long term attrition with Russia and the US, you are talking of tens of millions dead, no African/Caribbean/Moslem immigration to Europe and a far weaker economy than we have now.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:21
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
It was not possible for them to win.
Actually, that assertion is an insult to all who fought and died, though yes, there came a time when defeat for the Nazis became inevitable.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:24
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Originally Posted by ZeBedie View Post
If V1, V2, Me262 had a little more time, if the Pearl Harbour didn't happen, if Hitler had not attacked Russia - all sorts of thing could have been different.
if, if, if - if Hitler hadn't lost one ball he wouldn't have invaded Poland..
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:27
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In truth it was a damn close run thing
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:42
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Originally Posted by goudie View Post
In truth it was a damn close run thing
Yep...so true...

TBH Iíve always thought the more interesting but pointless debate is what saved the U.K. in1940...a stiff upper lip or did the Channel, and the Channel alone, save the country....

And then getting really abstract if the Channel hadnít been there we wouldnít have had Dunkirk and so would the hopefully better equipped remnants of the BEF, havin* pulled back with some form of order and some of their equipment have been able hold the line south east of London, and/or would the extended supply lines have done for Rommel et al......
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 17:51
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If Hitler has pursued his objective after Dunkirk then I think that the situation might have been different.

I used to joke with my German colleagues (when I worked in a German company) that they had so many public holidays in May and June was why they lost the War.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 18:11
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Originally Posted by Pitchpoller View Post
Under the postulate proposed in the OP, a large fascist empire would have been global top dog and Germany would have vied with some also-rans for second and third place.
They could have made it an administrative construct, taxed those who were subject to it just to fund the entity itself and punished any province which dared to try to escape.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 19:41
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Take the US and Russia out of the picture, and Hitler's regime could have reigned over Europe, North Africa and the Sand Pit for quite some time. That is not to say countries like England would have stopped fighting, but without materiel and men, conventional war is rather difficult to prosecute successfully.

Had the Nazis won, I believe the outcome of WWII would be similar to that of the first world war - leaving behind the need for another (a third). More likely than not, the third war would have involved the wider use of nuclear weapons with a decidedly unpleasant aftermath across Europe.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 19:52
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Didn't the Russians win the war?
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 19:53
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vapilot, Hitlers distaste for the untermensch was bound to cause conflict between USSR and Nazi Germany. Both he and Stalin knew that one of them would break that non aggression pact ... the question was who and when. The central/eastern Europe breadbasket was a crucial strategic aim of the Third Reich, in the long term.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 19:55
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If Hitler won, a strong USSR seems unlikely, yes? That aside, are you saying arable land needs would have precluded the use of nuclear weapons in Europe by the Nazis? Seems reasonable.

Also reasonable, I think is the idea that the Americans may have been forced, in a year or so, to drop a few nukes over Germany, had the war gone the other way.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 19:58
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Sorry, excuse my ignorance,50 million dead all sides? Ww2 inevitable with/without hitler? Do wonder if it happened 2 or 3 years later then the consequences might have been a lot more disastrous
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 19:58
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Robert Harris fatherland,good read I thought.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 20:02
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Originally Posted by vapilot2004 View Post
If Hitler won, a strong USSR seems unlikely, yes?
in the even that the Third Reich was victorious, it would have been very much at the expense of the USSR in central and eastern Europe. The USSR would have been broken up, and the Third Reich would have included quite a bit of Poland, Ukraine, and most of the Baltic States. With Moscow significantly taken down a peg, I am not sure what happens in the Stans/Near Abroad but I suspect devolution of the USSR would shortly follow.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 20:15
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
It was not possible for them to win.
I call bullocks on that - there are any number of 'what if's' that could have changed the whole outcome, not the least of which being that the UK/Churchill didn't back down so when the US entered the war they had access to bases in Europe. Can you imagine the logistical nightmare of D-Day launched from North America instead of the UK?
Heck even Hitler declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor made a massive difference - he did it because he wanted Japan to declare war on the Soviets - which of course they didn't do. If Hitler had known, it's quite possible he wouldn't have declared war on the US for some time - giving him more time to subdue Britain.
I've read several books by some of the German generals - and there is a common thread - they think (or at least imply) that if Hitler had let the generals operating in Russia do what they thought was best, it was possible to defeat Stalin (note that early in Barbarossa, the Germans were greeted as liberators - it wasn't until the SS showed up and started their atrocities that the locals turned against the Germans). As it was, even with a number of Hitler dumbass (e.g. Stalingrad) Soviet losses outnumbered German by ~10 to 1. Without some of Hitler's interference, that number might have been 20 to 1 or higher - it's questionable if even the Soviets could have withstood that level of losses.
Yes, at some point it became impossible for Germany to win, but that wasn't the case in 1941.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 21:31
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Well, notwithstanding anything that The Man in the High Castle might have had to say, I would hazard a guess that there'd be peace in the Middle East, not to much of an African migratory problem and probably quite a lot less of Jon Lansman, Seamus Milne and their gang of Marxist storm troopers.
There wouldn't have been that appalling war in the Balkans that so precisely illustrated the utter uselessness of the UN. North Korea would not exist as a dictatorial fief. The centre of world business would be Frankfurt. Medical research would have provided cures and palliatives for much that ails humans. Those involved in the arts and sciences would be respected and the youth would be organised into useful little boy scout like groups with bob a job considered a noble rather than a demeaning way of contributing to society and the elderly in particular.
One could go on a little further down the yellow brick autobahn but it's time to stop at one of those first class German rest stations where the food is outstanding, the beer is exceptional and the lavatories are immaculately clean being looked after by guest workers for the price of a Mark.
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