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WW2 - what if the Nazis had won?

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WW2 - what if the Nazis had won?

Old 21st Jan 2018, 22:23
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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"It was not possible for them to win"
I agree with Mac, once The Germans decided to go East and into Russia, the end was a matter of only time. The Russians moved all their important arms industrial factories and people to the Eastside of the Ural Mountains and the German supply lines could never have held up given the distances involved. Also, if one looks at history, what country ever successfully invaded Russia from the West and won the war, history wasn't kind to those that tried...
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Old 21st Jan 2018, 22:33
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Not to mention the top ranks of the Nazi Party were filled with drug addled (troops too!), clinically insane (all sorts), deranged, raving megalomaniacs who collectively were doomed to failure in any timeline.
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Old 21st Jan 2018, 22:34
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed. But that scenario was far from pre-destined in 1939. Had Britain not chosen to declare war, the Russo-German war of 1940 would have been, not a historical footnote, but certainly not a world war. It’s quite likely it would have gone Germany’s way and exceptionally unlikely the USA would have become involved
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 07:22
  #84 (permalink)  
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If the Nazis had won, the youth in Britain today would never been offered the option of voting for Jeremy Corbyn and his Storm Troopers, the next best thing to a socialist leader and his propaganda team to come along since the 1930s.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 09:12
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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I think Enola Gay would have put in an appearance over Berlin 1945 ish.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 11:55
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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I'll stick to my original post.

Everything else posted here has been fanciful froth and hot air. Fun maybe, but meaningless.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 15:26
  #87 (permalink)  
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EM, why? There was a strong pro-German sympathy in the US. The US did not develop the atomic bomb on its own and furthermore had no imperative need so to do.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 15:55
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Whatever the reason certainly many think the UK was ultimately the nation that fared worse as a result of WW2....for example see Stephen Ambrose’s comments in the final episode of the “World at War” series.
Well... i think that countries like (and especially) Poland suffered the most, during and after WW2.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 17:18
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
EM, why? There was a strong pro-German sympathy in the US. The US did not develop the atomic bomb on its own and furthermore had no imperative need so to do.
Richard Feynman, in his memoirs of his time on the Manhattan project was certain they were working on a weapon to use against Germany. High command couldn't be sure it would work and D Day etc went ahead.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 17:35
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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By 1945 details of The Holocaust would have leaked out. What better reason/excuse depending upon your viewpoint to test an untried weapon than to incinerate the perpetrators. What would have been interesting is whether the Nazis would have run up the white flag or waited until Munich had been introduced to the stratosphere.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 18:37
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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But all of that is dependent on Hitler declaring war on the US shortly after the Pearl Harbor attack.
What if he hadn't? What if the US had (only) faced Japan, and the Lindberg lead isolationists and pro German factions had kept the US out of the European war?


For that matter, despite the strong isolationist leanings of much of the US, Roosevelt was fiercely anti-Hitler/Pro Britain and managed to force through things like Lend-Lease. What if Roosevelt hadn't run for re-election in 1940 (apparently it was a close thing - lots of people felt two terms were enough for any president) and whoever took his place was fiercely isolationist - no Lend-Lease, no American protection of British bound convoys? No reason for Hitler to declare war on the US? No need for the US to develop the A-bomb (or develop it first)?


How long would the Soviet Union and Great Britain have lasted against V-2's carrying A-bombs?
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 18:54
  #92 (permalink)  
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Tdr,exactly. The original premise was what if NAZIS had won. It should have been conditional, for instance had GB not declared war on Germany. Had Germany successfully conquered Britain. Had Germany not attacked Russia. Had D Day failed. Had the 8th Army failed.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 21:04
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
How long would the Soviet Union and Great Britain have lasted against V-2's carrying A-bombs?
I think getting a first generation A bomb into a V2 would have been quite a feat.

The V2 Amatol warhead weighed 1000kg. Little Boy weighed 4400kg, Fat Man 4700kg.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 21:11
  #94 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jetex_Jim View Post
I think getting a first generation A bomb into a V2 would have been quite a feat.

The V2 Amatol warhead weighed 1000kg. Little Boy weighed 4400kg, Fat Man 4700kg.
And weren't the Germans short of having a working A bomb?
There were talks of the scientists 'delaying' the research on the grounds of disapproval.
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Old 22nd Jan 2018, 21:22
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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But if the Germans had invaded Britain would the MAUD committee have been established and would Oliphant have made it to America?
Also would progress on the A9 missile been made as there would have been no raid by the RAF on Peenemünde.....
And no operation Freshman either!
So many divergent timelines eh!
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 09:36
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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We could speculate about the means how Germans would (unlikely) win the war and it doesn't stipulate that whole world would be conquered but if they would take control of Europe and Asia we can imagine what would happen.

Their "Sturm und Drang nach Osten" and conquering their "Lebensraum" would mean that Slavic (and other) nations would be thrown into the role of servants, subdued and oppressed. Jews would be murdered, also Roma and others who would not fit into their "ideal" of mankind.

Anybody who would not fit into their allowed model of thinking would be put into labour camps and exterminated after all. George Orwell's 1984 would be quite exact description how such society would operate.

Their "ideals" and "visions" are available to read and study. Actually communism and nazism are not so far away from each other, I can still remember how it felt living under Soviet empire where it was expected that you think and behave uniformly. Just think of present day North Korea regime and replace their ideology with fascism and you are quite close. You are allowed to think freely providing you think the same way like the "Führer" and his camarilla.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 11:09
  #97 (permalink)  
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Pali, just think, the time period between the start of WW1 and start of WW2 is the same as the end of the Cold War and today. Frightening when considering the World today, almost as if man needs a regular blood letting.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 13:05
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Pali, just think, the time period between the start of WW1 and start of WW2 is the same as the end of the Cold War and today. Frightening when considering the World today, almost as if man needs a regular blood letting.
If you think of the Cold War, then in Europe it was what it says on the tin: cold (in a lot of the rest of the world it was very 'hot', though). The world today is actually very peaceful. So what you are really saying is what Steven Ambrose said in the last bit of World at War, that there was a 'civil war' in Europe with a period of truce during the '20s and '30s but since then it has been extremely peaceful. An amazing period of history brought about by the antidote to anything 'Nazi' or the likes: Democracy. History before this was filled with constant 'blood lettings', none as huge as that 'European civil war' but cumulatively extremely damaging to humankind. The tyrannies, warmongers and warlords that have always caused this constant damage to humankind have been in steady decline around the world (except in the Far East) due the the spread of democracy in its various and developing forms. The Nazis were just one of these 'warlord' groups that were never going to mean anything in the long run, other than to give a cause for an increase in momentum to the spread of democracy. Those who oppose the bellicose noises from the warlords in order to protect democracy and its more peaceful way of life should not be confused as being warmongers but rather as realists who see the importance of standing up to those warlords rather than attempting to appease them and cause them to build up false self-importance. That was as important in the '30s as it is now. Standing up firmly against the vassal state of a tyranny is essential to ensure that the message gets across to the tyranny that it will eventually suffer the same fate of all tyrannies in history and that it that they will come to an end, somehow or other. The Nazis were one of those tyrannies that just proved the case. The World today is actually a place where a far greater percentage of the World's population is living in peace, and has good prospects for continued peace, than ever in history. The frequent 'blood letting' of the past is diminishing rapidly! Thanks to that far-from-perfect form of government but the one that is better than all the alternatives: democracy.

Whatever little quirks of history may have tweaked a few temporary different outcomes, in the long run the Nazis were never going to win. The same fate that every other tyranny in history has also suffered, and always will.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 13:29
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
America's position was not clear cut. There were strong factions supporting a greater neutrality and other for siding with Germany. Had Japan not attacked, would the US have become a belligerent, notwithstanding the German U-boat aggression pre-Pearl Harbour?
Were there not rumours -of big American corporations supporting / spplying the nazi regime before 41?

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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 13:40
  #100 (permalink)  
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But the original question postulated the proposition that the Nazis had won. That must therefore be a given historical fact in the context of answering the question itself. Arguments as to whether the Germans could have won the war are not relevant. The answers to the original request for imaginative theories must surely deal, at least in part, with how one might imagine the world with a Nazi European empire instead of a Bruxellian one and whether the individual could imagine himself comfortable and safe in that remarkably similar scenario.
The answer to that hypothetical question seems obvious enough. Europhiles and members of Momentum would presumably be comfortable in an autocratic and centralised European regime while, as a short example, Eurosceptics, coloured people, the rainbow fraternity and those of the Jewish faith might not. I have little doubt that people such as these would have made their way, insofar as was possible, to the United States which would remain, as it always has been, the world's only democratic bastion with the strength of both its peoples and its government sufficient to maintain that state of order.
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