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African Migrants "may" have fuelled crime rise

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African Migrants "may" have fuelled crime rise

Old 9th Jan 2018, 16:12
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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you'll have no problem with the islamisation of various bits of Africa over the centuries??
There the ones we used to buy our slaves from.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 16:29
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ex_matelot View Post
You're not very au fait with African history..or Africa, are you Krystal?
One of the requirements for being an 'Empire-hater' is to have no knowledge of actual history and to have no direct knowledge of the actual places involved.

It was/is somehow OK if African chiefs/warlords sold their own people to Arab slave-traders but it is somehow terrible if trans-Atlantic traders became involved in this centuries-old practice. (And if those Europeans had not become involved it is unlikely that the trade would have been opposed so vociferously so soon.) It was somehow OK for African chiefs/warlords to execute/murder their subjects in large swathes but it is somehow terrible if Europeans 'subjugate' them with colonial law and order. Then of course there is the death and violence that was foist upon so much of Africa and fueled by those darling socialists in the USSR and Communist China to oppose the 'evil' of the European empires that (barring the likes of the Germans and Belgians) had subjugated so many of those murderous chiefs/warlords. The important thing for empire-haters is that you must ignore, or even censor out, all mention of all that reality that was worse than the days of Empire, both before and after those days of Empire. Reality and truth are unimportant, maintaining an shaken opposition to Empire sweeps reality and truth aside. And you sneer at truth by calling it 'regression therapy'.

... the ones we used to buy our slaves from.
Bin Laden was recorded referring to black Africans as 'slaves', long, long, long after Europeans had abolished the trade; some things are still quite ingrained in some cultures.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 16:35
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Is it Spain?
Close, but no.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 17:01
  #64 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Um... lifting... View Post
Close, but no.
Morocco ?

NEO
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 17:33
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Morocco ?
No. I guessed it right off and confirmed it with a quick googling. The Western European country is not Spain, and the African country is not Morocco.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 17:43
  #66 (permalink)  
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A few years ago there was a comprehensive study done in the UK of performance of children of different ethnic backgrounds in UK schools. The study went to considerable length to discount social background of parents and upbringing environment. The study found that ethnic Asian (particularly Chinese) children consistently performed best in UK schools, followed by ethnic Caucasian, followed by ethnic Afro-Caribbean. But one of the most significant findings is that Asian children still outperformed other children whatever their socio-economic background. What this study indicates is that Asian immigrants are able to integrate - whereas Afro-Caribbean children cannot.

Moreover, there are numerous studies in European countries that show that first generation African immigrants tend to integrate well because they recognise the advantages they have been given. The problems arise in 2nd and 3rd generations which are effectively left behind in education and the employment market, and so have an increased temptation to resort to crime.

These uncomfortable statistics absolutely must be addressed in our future immigration policy if Europe is to remain competitive with China/Japan - who largely do not have problems with African immigration.
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 18:40
  #67 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
"I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia."

Just because some of us have spent a long time working in Africa, that is no reason to condemn all expatriates, "these people," in the same terms.

Some of us take care to treat Africans with a modicum of respect! Other expats, sure, they can go a bit mad being given a lot of power over others for the first time in their no-account lives, but that is not all of us. Some of us do manage to re-integrate into "civilizations in Europe or Asia." Other expatriates such as yourself, Trim Stab, do stay that way after having "gone bush," but then you may find bad people in all societies.

I would suggest getting professional help with your obvious problems, Trim Stab, instead of assuming that all expats share them.
I'll take you up on that. I work in Africa because I do a very technical aviation and engineering job which is well beyond the technical ability of the indigenous people to do. Yes, there are a very small number of indigenous people who might be able to do my job - but the opportunities available to those outliers here is so high that they prefer to take other avenues in life (usually in politics where they can steal billions..). There are just not enough locals intelligent enough to do the high tech jobs in Africa.

As you and others have written, there are many local people who are decent, hard-working and even could be categorised as honest by European standards. For example, I can now trust my driver (after a few years of training and education) not to inflate any receipt for fuel or car-repair by 100% in order to share a kick-back with the mechanic...

However, what totally disgusts me in Africa is how Africans systematically take advantage of others weaker than themselves, in the most malevolent, despicable ways. Their society is deeply heirarchical, feudal and materialistic. A common sight on African roads are "VIP convoys" with armed police escort, racing through towns and villages at high speed for the security of the "VIPS". If a child happens to get run-over in a village - these people will not stop - that would be "too dangerous" for the VIP...

Another example at the opposite end of the social scale to show how pervasive venal manipulation is in Africa. Some family friends here employ a Filipina maid as nanny to their toddler. The other maid (a local, who was employed for house cleaning duties and had been with the family for many years) blackmailed the Fiilipina maid by threatening to kill the toddler and blame her unless she agreed to be pimped out to the African maid's African clients. Can you imagine how much distress that caused to the Filipina maid?

I could go on with plenty of examples of crude African manipulation of anybody weaker than themselves - but these would be distractions that from the simple fact that Africans (and perhaps Australian Aborigines) are the only people on our planet who have never developed any theology. By theology, I don't mean religion (though theology is often codified through religion) but a social discipline and wisdom which allows society to develop and advance in an orderly fashion to the benefit of all.

USA/Brazil have been struggling to integrate their substantial Afro-Caribbean population for nearly 200 years and are still having problems with their underachievement in the employment market and over-achievement in social burden. Europe has been struggling for mostly 50 years or so with the same results - Afro-Caribbeans are difficult to employ (without "affirmative action") and contribute disproportionately to social burden (welfare, crime). It has been very interesting to read the "contributions" to Australian society of recent African migrants as I was not aware of these reports until re-reading this thread. By contrast, all these countries have had Sino-Asian immigration from China/Korea/Japan who have very successfully integrated and are nor very productive members of society. US high tech industry has disproportionately high numbers of Sino-Asian immigrants - go to see the Sydney Opera or Symphony and you will see disproportionate number of Asians contributing to Australian art and music - to give just some two random and diverse examples.

And to answer another responder - yes, it is perhaps true that recent first-generation immigrants to UK from Eastern Europe (particularly Albania and Rumania) have possibly contributed disproportionately to crime. But their descendants rapidly integrate and within a generation have no higher social burden than the norm.

Personally, I would really encourage immigration from former British Sino-Asian colonies (particularly Hong-Kong, Singapore) because these people will massively enrich the UK. Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly unattractive for them to come here as their societies race ahead and ours goes backwards...

These issues do need to be debated and not just denounced as "racist". The almost uncontrollable illegal immigration of Africans to Europe is going to have serious social implications for Europe unless it is halted.

Last edited by Trim Stab; 9th Jan 2018 at 20:31.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 00:09
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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By theology, I don't mean religion (though theology is often codified through religion) but a social discipline and wisdom which allows society to develop and advance in an orderly fashion to the benefit of all.
Trim Stab, the Australian Aborigine in their native state have an extremely strict code of behaviour, transgression of which can, depending on the misdemeanour, result in severe repercussions. They also have a code of belief, the "Dreamtime".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime

Listening to the elderly talk, those who have maintained the ways old, I think could teach us a great lesson in how to live in harmony with each other and the earth. It is rather patronising to think that the white mans advances in science etc make him stand out above other races. I often think the Aborigine in his native state is the smartest of the lot of us. Sorry I don't have the writing skills to do them, the Aborigine, justice. White society has destroyed the Aborigine.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 01:00
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trim Stab View Post

These uncomfortable statistics absolutely must be addressed in our future immigration policy if Europe is to remain competitive with China/Japan - who largely do not have problems with African immigration.
That might be because they do not have any African immigration.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 04:54
  #70 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Trim Stab View Post
A few years ago there was a comprehensive study done in the UK of performance of children of different ethnic backgrounds in UK schools. The study went to considerable length to discount social background of parents and upbringing environment. The study found that ethnic Asian (particularly Chinese) children consistently performed best in UK schools, followed by ethnic Caucasian, followed by ethnic Afro-Caribbean. But one of the most significant findings is that Asian children still outperformed other children whatever their socio-economic background. What this study indicates is that Asian immigrants are able to integrate - whereas Afro-Caribbean children cannot.

Moreover, there are numerous studies in European countries that show that first generation African immigrants tend to integrate well because they recognise the advantages they have been given. The problems arise in 2nd and 3rd generations which are effectively left behind in education and the employment market, and so have an increased temptation to resort to crime.

These uncomfortable statistics absolutely must be addressed in our future immigration policy if Europe is to remain competitive with China/Japan - who largely do not have problems with African immigration.
So lets summarise this then.

You are, as you modestly choose to define yourself, the "cleverest man in the whole of Africa ".

So clever in fact you are infatuated with discredited pseudoscience .....

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-9-most-i...ank-1575543279

Although thus far you've missed out that other favourite, phrenology, which, given your self proclaimed intelligence and expertise, is possibly just as well.

You've been in Africa for nearly 20 years, yet loathe the Continent and the population but, strangely, have never felt the compulsion to leave.

You see, irrespective of the location or context, be this work and / or social, most of us don't stay in locations or with people we don't like if we can avoid doing so.

The reason for your staying couldn't, and I know it's an unsavoury term, possibly be........money......could it ? I think we can safely rule out altruism and philanthropy after all.

Or there again, like others on here, possibly you are enjoying some form of regressive fantasy, the fantasy being the perpetuity of the British Empire ( pristine copy of the Mail with a quick snorter of Gordon's to compliment the full English brekkie, with a bit of kedgeree for variation ) served every day .

And thus to this little gem....

" These issues do need to be debated and not just denounced as "racist

Oh absolutely top hole and spot on there old boy what ! After all, the English language is a constantly evolving medium and new words, terms and phrases are appearing all the time.

What, for example, do you have in mind to replace..... bigot and racist ?...both of which are succinct and definitive of the personal traits of those to whom they apply.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 10th Jan 2018 at 14:52.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 06:15
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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But instead of answering his points, you insult him....

He might not be 100% accurate, but there is a lot of truth in what he says. How do you respond to those specific points which those of us living in the UK see daily?
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 06:47
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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In terms of intelligence it goes like this:
1. Asians
2. Jews
3. Whites
4. Blacks
5. Hispanics
With the Australian aborigines and Kalahari bushmen being in last place.

Chinese and Jews tend to stick in their own communities but are generally highly successful immigrants.

In the UK, prison kitchens are set up to provide halal catering as the muslin population is heavily over represented behind bars. Kosher food is outsourced as there are so few Jews doing time it isn’t worth providing for them in house.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 06:48
  #73 (permalink)  
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Mr Chips,

Have you spent much time in Africa ? I have been fortunate to travel to most corners of the planet however I have only seen the immediate aftermath of one murder. It was in broad daylight in one of the most upmarket streets in Capetown.

Go figure.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 07:53
  #74 (permalink)  
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If Empire was bad and metamorphosed into Commonwealth, which would also seem to be bad, how come so many former colonies stay in the Commonwealth?

Ireland is not in the Commonwealth yet enjoys a special relationship with Great Britain. It even has some Royal institutions.

India still has political divisions over former British rule, but, interestingly, in one city extension to the police HQ in a utilitarian style had the be replaced in neoclassical style after public protest.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 08:20
  #75 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Espada III View Post
But instead of answering his points, you insult him....

He might not be 100% accurate, but there is a lot of truth in what he says. How do you respond to those specific points which those of us living in the UK see daily?
I have answered his points, at least as politely as I can and I can't see any insults therein. And I also live in the UK by the way.

B Fraser....."time in Africa "......short answer is no.

I did, however, as I've said before have an Uncle ( Lloyd Watkins, wildlife vet, No 2 on "Operation Noah" gets a mention in the book "Okavango " who did spend some considerable time over there.....until he got sick and tired of the white racism and left. Personal friend of this gentleman as well....President Seretse Khama who set a precedent as I'm sure you are aware.

Also had a cousin who went to S.A. he was a coppersmith, and he left for the same reason

Must be a genetic family trait...being liberal and anti-racist ......not forgetting reading the Guardian before one of the chaps mentions it.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 10th Jan 2018 at 08:31.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 08:30
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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So to summarise then -you don't know. You're just batting an opinion you think you ought to hold and defend.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 08:37
  #77 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ex_matelot View Post
So to summarise then -you don't know. You're just batting an opinion you think you ought to hold and defend.
I would have thought the unpalatable context of Trim Stabs posts was abundantly clear...and warrants an opinion accordingly.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 08:50
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Just because something is unpalatable - does not make it wrong.
It was once too politically unpalatable to acknowledge many things - asian grooming gangs for example.

You no doubt have misgivings about the MET police Op Trident too - set up as a necessity based on "the real situation" as opposed to obfuscation and navel gazing.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 09:17
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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I was in Nigeria at the time the ‘Roots’ book was published and there were many black americans visiting from the US. Many on arrival announced that they were ‘African’ but it did not take them long to change this to “I’m an American”. as soon as they realised just what the indigenous population was really like.
Trim Stab’s view is-typical of ex pats I met in my many years in Africa and cannot be ignored and agrees with my own observations although I might not be brave enough to say them myself. Reporting to my UK firm from Africa I was unable to give a true picture to them simply because they wouldnt accept the truth, they had no idea of the reality of life across this continent. Even today I generally refrain from comments about how it really was.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 09:30
  #80 (permalink)  
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Read novels by Tony Park. He is not racist and many of his characters are black. He draws a good picture that certainly shows the differences.
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