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African Migrants "may" have fuelled crime rise

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African Migrants "may" have fuelled crime rise

Old 7th Jan 2018, 03:52
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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The 'may' is important as its my perception that Rumanians, Bulgarians and Albanians all had a part in fuelling increasing crime too.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 04:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
Octane: Maybe some of the younger teenagers who are learning the 'craft' of robbery with violence etc. but many in these gangs of five to ten people are described as being adult males in their twenties and thirties. Here in Victoria the government will go to great lengths to protect these "poor, unfortunate" individuals and to demonise the victims.



Very debateable if talking about the more recently arrived from both Africa and the Middle East. Otherwise yes, true.

To quote retired radio host Ron Casey, "they should be sent home in sheep transport ships with 'Australian Reject' stamped on their foreheads".
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 04:22
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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You mean me?!

"I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia."

Just because some of us have spent a long time working in Africa, that is no reason to condemn all expatriates, "these people," in the same terms.

Some of us take care to treat Africans with a modicum of respect! Other expats, sure, they can go a bit mad being given a lot of power over others for the first time in their no-account lives, but that is not all of us. Some of us do manage to re-integrate into "civilizations in Europe or Asia." Other expatriates such as yourself, Trim Stab, do stay that way after having "gone bush," but then you may find bad people in all societies.

I would suggest getting professional help with your obvious problems, Trim Stab, instead of assuming that all expats share them.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 05:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Like I said before, if these young people are Australian citizens they can't be sent anywhere other than jail where they belong...
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 06:51
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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This problem is not unique to Australia - figures I have seen show a disproportionate number of the London black community are victims and perpetrators of violent crime. Unfortunately due to PC we are not allowed to discuss this as it would be racist. We pretend the problem does not exist therefore there is no solution in sight.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 08:33
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Many of the members of African street gangs in Australia are of Sudanese origin. Straight from a third world war zone who would reasonably expect them to fit into a modern, democratic first world country, strong on human rights and the rule of law ?

They just don't and will never fit in. Whoever decided to bring them over needs his head examining. There are enough problems with the aboriginals already, and the Somalis bought in at the start of the African refugee program should have served as an immediate red flag against further immigration from the dark continent.

Even the well publicised behaviour of African illegals in Europe didn't seem to deter the bleeding heart liberals.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 08:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Metro man View Post
Many of the members of African street gangs in Australia are of Sudanese origin. Straight from a third world war zone who would reasonably expect them to fit into a modern, democratic first world country, strong on human rights and the rule of law ?

They just don't and will never fit in. Whoever decided to bring them over needs his head examining. There are enough problems with the aboriginals already, and the Somalis bought in at the start of the African refugee program should have served as an immediate red flag against further immigration from the dark continent.

Even the well publicised behaviour of African illegals in Europe didn't seem to deter the bleeding heart liberals.
I wouldn't convalute the circumstances of our native Australian aboriginal people and the actions of the African immigrants. They are totally different issues.

I agree with the rest of your post.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 08:54
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Poll shows African youth crime a key issue, and Andrews better to deal with it

Poll shows African youth crime a key issue, and Andrews better to deal with it

Voters in two key outer Melbourne electorates say resoundingly that crime involving African youths has spiked in the last year, and more than half identify law and order as their biggest concern.

However, a strong majority of more than 1300 residents polled in the Labor seats of Tarneit and Cranbourne believe Premier Daniel Andrews will better tackle crime than Opposition Leader Matthew Guy.

The ReachTEL phone poll was conducted for The Age on Friday – the day after a midnight rampage in Melbourne's north-west involving up to 10 African youths.

In the seat of Tarneit, held by Labor by almost 15 per cent at the last state election, more than a third of those polled said they or someone they knew had been a gang violence victim in the last year.

The poll also indicated softening support for Labor in Tarneit: it would still hold the seat if an election had been held last week, but with a greatly reduced margin.

In Cranbourne, a marginal seat held by Labor by just 2.3 per cent, more than a quarter of residents polled said gang violence had affected them or someone they knew in the last year.

A large majority of voters in both seats – which have higher rates of crimes against the person than most of the state – said that managing crime and anti-social behaviour was crucial in deciding who they would vote for.

The issue of law and order easily outstripped other hot-button topics including transport, property prices and jobs.

In both seats, around 70 per cent of residents polled believed the main issue with youth crime concerned "gangs of African origin".

While law and order has been a long-standing problem for the Andrews government, the focus has intensified on African youths in recent weeks following a spate of high-profile offences and intense media coverage of the issue.

Incidents include an attack on a police officer at Highpoint shopping centre, an ugly brawl in St Kilda, the trashing of an Airbnb property in Werribee, and a crime spree in Melbourne's west on Thursday night.

Among Thursday's offences was the terrorising of a 59-year-old woman in the suburb of Hillside by a group of young men who stormed the house she was looking after.

In a sign of how bitterly fought November's election will be, the Coalition has seized on these and other cases to portray Mr Andrews as soft on crime, and to attack Victoria's sentencing and bail system.

Federal Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton last week also weighed in to assist his Victorian colleagues, saying, without evidence, that people in Melbourne were "scared to go out to restaurants of a night time because they are followed home by these gangs".

While many poured scorn on Mr Dutton, a majority of voters polled in Tarneit and Cranbourne said they were less likely to go out at night than 12 months ago because of the threat of gang violence.

In Tarneit, 62 per cent said they were less likely to go out at night. In the age group aged over 65, the figure was even higher: 71 per cent.

In Cranbourne, held by Labor since 2002, a touch over half of voters polled said they were more frightened to go out at night than a year ago. Older voters there were also more fearful, with 65 per cent saying they were less likely to go out at night than a year ago.

But in a blow to the state Coalition's hopes of winning this year's election by focusing on youth crime, in both electorates a majority of voters found that the courts, parents or police were most responsible for managing the issue.

Under 20 per cent of voters in both seats believed the state government shouldered responsibility for the issue.

In Cranbourne, 67 per cent of voters polled believed Mr Andrews would be the most effective in dealing with crime, while in Tarneit 75 per cent said the Premier would do a better job than Mr Guy.

Monash University politics lecturer Zareh Ghazarian said that, while Labor was unlikely to lose either seat, the level of concern among voters was striking.

"Law and order is the hot button issue," he said. "The newspapers with front page articles about gang violence and youth violence, and the nightly news with stories on gang and youth violence, it's clearly paying a part in this. But it's at the forefront of peoples' attention."

Dr Ghazarian said the "silver lining" for Labor was that, in both seats, Mr Andrews was seen as the most effective in dealing with crime and anti-social behaviour. Only a third of voters in Cranbourne felt Mr Guy would deal with the issue better, and only a quarter in Tarneit.

"With a lot of commentary about the Premier's policies and performance and crime rates, you'd have thought it would be lower than that – so that's a real positive for Labor," Dr Ghazarian said.

He said that for law and order to be "head and shoulders above health, education, transport and the economy" was unusual. "It's quite distinctive of the 2018 campaign."

"It is clearly signalling it's a great concern to the electorate – especially to older members of the community. The older people get the more they appear to be concerned."
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 09:06
  #29 (permalink)  
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There are many traditional, long standing stereotypes. We are no longer permitted by law to refer to these or attribute them to a section of society. While it is obvious that such stereotyping cannot apply to every person in that group it should be self-evident that they were originally accurate descriptions for peoples from particular cultures.

A possibly benign example is the heaven and hell joke. There is no doubt that it is racist but you can still see the original truisms - British and Gerna police, British and French cooking etc.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 11:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Whenever I see pictures of migrants on boats they are invariably young African males.

How these uneducated youths are going to get qualifications, a job and integrate beats me.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 13:32
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata View Post
Whenever I see pictures of migrants on boats they are invariably young African males.

How these uneducated youths are going to get qualifications, a job and integrate beats me.
Let's look at one historical parallel. In the last 150 years around one million Slovaks emigrated from their homeland (roughly 580.000 till 1919) mostly to United States but also to Canada, Argentina etc.

When I studied the history of this exodus it was obvious that the first wave consisted almost exclusively of young males who were a sort of envoy. They were unqualified, most of them had max 4 years education, spoke no foreign language, no experience from any industry, etc. If they were able to hold ground they sent money home so the wife and children could follow across the ocean.

The poorest folks weren't able to pursue this way and that is also valid in the today's immigration. To enter the boat you need to have at least some resources otherwise you are stuck in some refugee camp for years.

Unless you simply run away when your house is bombed you don't send your wife and kids forward. It is the man who has better chances to find some job and prepare new existence for the rest of the family.

Anytime I don't see young males as prevalent immigrants I am rather surprised.

There is another point in history which tends to repeat itself: immigrants are lured by traffickers who spread false rumours about how "great it all is". Do you know why Greenland bears its name although there is so little green on the island? Because the name was given by seafarers who made profit from emigration so they tried to make it look desirable. It is a big business. I saw adds from around 1900 which described life "behind great pond" as wonderful destiny and it was issued in Slovak language by Cunard, White Star Lines etc. to promote the sales of transatlantic tickets.

If there is a chance that African and Asian immigrants find a job and can contribute to the society that would be entirely different discussion but we better understand how this processes work and why are things the way they are.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 14:09
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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You assume young men with wife and kids left behind.
I assume young, single males in the majority of the recent surges.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 14:44
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The USA was crying out for mass immigration 100 years ago to fill basic manual jobs.

Those opportunities do not exist in 21 century Europe.

What will happen to hundreds of thousands of semi illiterate young men is anyones guess.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 15:29
  #34 (permalink)  
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Your lone young male, married or single, is an economic migrant. If young and single he should fight for his country. If married he should escape with his family.

Some decades ago, at a lecture, we were told of refugees escaping Haiti. Escape was simple, either slip across the border sail around to Dominican Republic. Instead they would sail passed Cuba to Florida, why?
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 15:47
  #35 (permalink)  
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In the Mediterranean tourist spots you will have noted the people sitting around, a suitcase of sunglasses and watches for sale. You see them winding their way around tables in cafes and bars being shooed away by the owners from time to time.

Some has paid for the tat and the seller has either hired the suitcase or is working commission. It appears to be an exclusive African franchise. Does anyone buy from them?

In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 16:27
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.
Possibly because of modern slavery or because they are a great way to launder money. There was a BBC news story last week about slavery and the prevalence of enslaved workers at car washes. A DS spoke to a group I was with and dismissed or down played the link to modern slavery however she said that she had some evidence that they were used for money laundering. Either way someone is making a lot of money from the car washes and I guess that there is an incentive for the workers to work hard when at a guess they are working for less than minimum wage and cash in hand.

Last edited by skydiver69; 7th Jan 2018 at 17:51.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 16:41
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"I’m from the North born and raised and lived near Rochdale fir some time. Sexual violence and abuse of women and children was and remains rife in poor communities. My own view is that we ‘groomed’ Pakistani men into this abusive aspect of working class British culture."

Lee Jasper, Labour party activist, on Twitter.

There you have it, it's all our fault!
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 21:57
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
In the Mediterranean tourist spots you will have noted the people sitting around, a suitcase of sunglasses and watches for sale. You see them winding their way around tables in cafes and bars being shooed away by the owners from time to time.

Some has paid for the tat and the seller has either hired the suitcase or is working commission. It appears to be an exclusive African franchise. Does anyone buy from them?

In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.
They also have the latest smartphones.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 22:05
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HEMS driver View Post
Just an FYI to this story which I consider needing a bit of amplification or clarity:

Chudy Nsobundu, 57, and his wife Sandra Nsobundu, 49, also were sentenced to seven months in jail and seven months of home confinement, plus three years probation. The couple, who are Nigerian-born, naturalized U.S. citizens,
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 23:26
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata View Post
How these uneducated youths are going to get qualifications, a job and integrate beats me.
They're not. They're going to vote for politicians who promise them 'free stuff'.

This whole mess is about bringing in foreign voters who'll do the votes the local people won't do. Because otherwise, every left-wing party in the West would be on its deathbed right now.
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