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Old 31st Dec 2017, 15:03
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Crepello View Post
The usual hypocrisy remains... "guns are evil", "cops are brutal", etc. Yet almost every crime victim I've assisted was quick to call 911 and demand cops with guns appear instantaneously. Funny old world!
They probably wanted one of the competent ones, if there are any outside your imagination. Personally I wouldn't call an armed cop in the USA and then open the door to them! - FFS!!!
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 15:05
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
You've made a couple of references in this thread to shooting cops. You're just being sarcastic, I assume ?
If the biggest threat out there on the street is armed cops, as now seems to be the case, and the American Way is to arm yourself against threats out there on the street and shoot first and worry about the paperwork later, then I am simply being logical.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 15:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Seems a clean shoot.
That's one way to spin it. Another way could be forthcoming. The media hasn't collectively decided which way to go on this yet. We'll see what they say after the legal and police procedure "experts" chime in. In the meantime, at least we have this slacker from LA who likes to play games on the phone to concentrate our scorn upon. His previous conviction for calling in bomb threats to a TV station could influence the narrative!
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 15:42
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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A cop is pointing a gun at you so what is so hard about complying with his (or her) instructions. Almost all the police involved shootings of unarmed suspects are because they either tried to flee or refused to comply with instructions - if they had simply done as they were told they would be walking around today.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 16:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
A cop is pointing a gun at you so what is so hard about complying with his (or her) instructions.
Scared shitless and brain freeze would be only one of several possible answers, especially if you've only got half a second or so to analyse the situation and react.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 18:15
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Scared shitless and brain freeze would be only one of several possible answers, especially if you've only got half a second or so to analyse the situation and react.
Well it must be just me then - when someone is pointing a gun at me I tend to do what they say, I dont try and run away and I dont start fiddling around in my pockets.

But as I said - that is just me.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 18:27
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
A cop is pointing a gun at you so what is so hard about complying with his (or her) instructions. Almost all the police involved shootings of unarmed suspects are because they either tried to flee or refused to comply with instructions - if they had simply done as they were told they would be walking around today.
You're in the house doing nothing wrong. You hear a commotion outside, so go to the door. Someone, maybe many people, are pointing torches (flashlights) and car headlamps at you. Someone shouts something at you. What did they say? If you don't do exactly the right thing straight away, you're dead.

Do the American Police and military really shout at people when pointing guns at them, as portrayed by Hollywood? If so, its hardly surprising that panic ensues and people get shot.

Word of advice to any would-be hostage takers - Always send a hostage to the door first.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 18:28
  #28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Well it must be just me then - when someone is pointing a gun at me I tend to do what they say, I dont try and run away and I dont start fiddling around in my pockets.

But as I said - that is just me.
Remember, in a multi-lingual society, what is perfectly clear and understandable to one person could be gibberish to another.

Once challenged by a white US Serviceman I could not understand a word he said. Fortunately his colleague, who had done a tour in East Anglia, was able to interpret. Another instance, a USAF Sgt on posting to Florida could not understand the locals. He asked for, and got, an immediate reassignment back to Germany.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 19:16
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Once challenged by a white US Serviceman I could not understand a word he said. Fortunately his colleague, who had done a tour in East Anglia, was able to interpret. Another instance, a USAF Sgt on posting to Florida could not understand the locals. He asked for, and got, an immediate reassignment back to Germany.
That sounds very familiar. Once when asking for directions in a shop (store) in Virginia Beach, the girl behind the counter, looked at me and very slowly and clearly stated, 'I'm very sorry, I do not speak German'.
The next day, having hired a car, I was driving down to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, and picked up a hitchhiker. This guy was the full deal; denim dungarees, collarless shirt, straw hat etc. We really did try to communicate, but whatever he was speaking, clearly wasn't the same English that I was using, and he couldn't understand a word I said, either.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 20:51
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Well it must be just me then - when someone is pointing a gun at me I tend to do what they say
I've never had anyone point a gun at me - under what circumstances could that possibly have happened???[#] It would be a completely outlandish, unreal, out-of-this-universe, experience and I can't begin to guess how I'd react.

[#] OK, we did get stopped by some armed police in Jamaica once, but they were pointing their guns at the road, not at me.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 21:15
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
...especially if you've only got half a second or so to analyse the situation and react.
Exactly the circumstance cops experience as part of their job description; you stated you've never been in such a position yet condemn those who have for a lack of unfailing perfection.

But since you wish death for the ~900,000 cops in the US, here's some info that should brighten your holiday season as it comes to an end. You'll be encouraged to see that not only are they shot by perps but also perish by "vehicle assault" !! Happy New Year:

https://www.odmp.org/search/year
Law Enforcement Facts

Preliminary 2017 Fatality Statistics

The preliminary data seems to show that gun-related cop deaths are down in 2017 vs 2016. Sorry to end on such a sour note for you. But there's always 2018 to look forward to.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 21:49
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
A cop is pointing a gun at you so what is so hard about complying with his (or her) instructions. Almost all the police involved shootings of unarmed suspects are because they either tried to flee or refused to comply with instructions - if they had simply done as they were told they would be walking around today.
This guy was trying to comply with the instructions which apparently involved crawling on hands and knees with his legs crossed?! It didn't end well for him (or his wife and two young daughters who are now fatherless). The officer who did the shooting was charged and subsequently found not guilty. Skip to about the 11 minute mark. This really disturbed me. https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f6_1512716304
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 22:42
  #33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I've never had anyone point a gun at me - under what circumstances could that possibly have happened???[#] It would be a completely outlandish, unreal, out-of-this-universe, experience and I can't begin to guess how I'd react.
you react slowly. First because you don't know what is happening. Then still slowly as you think a sudden movement might alarm the gunman. And finally still slowly as you want to do the right thing as ordered by the gunman and don't want to make a mistake.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 00:37
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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You're Safer Dealing with an Armed Robber

  • There's just one
  • You can establish a working rapport with that one person
  • There's no buddy standing where you don't see him who might panic and shoot at any misinterpreted movement that may even be exactly as ordered by another officer
  • The robber knows he will be up for murder if you get shot
  • A cop will be defended by the best lawyer his union can buy in the rare occasion his shooting results in charges

Last edited by RatherBeFlying; 1st Jan 2018 at 06:58.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 00:55
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by spInY nORmAn View Post
This guy was trying to comply with the instructions which apparently involved crawling on hands and knees with his legs crossed?! It didn't end well for him (or his wife and two young daughters who are now fatherless). The officer who did the shooting was charged and subsequently found not guilty. Skip to about the 11 minute mark. This really disturbed me. https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f6_1512716304
Yes - the guy clearly didn't do what the cop told him to do. The cop said quite clearly that if he put his hands behind him again they would shoot.

So as I said, if he had complied with the instructions from the cop he would not have been shot.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 01:19
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Yep, let's just get rid of the armed police, that'll solve the problem...

https://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2...uess-happened/


So the greatest revelation that some communities may be grasping, moving into 2018 is that if you continuously threaten the police, attack the police, protest and spit on the police, they’ll back off and the crime in your communities goes up.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 03:05
  #37 (permalink)  
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It's no wonder cops are twitchy ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/u...-shooting.html
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 06:52
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the officer fatality statistics in Preliminary 2017 Fatality Statistics

a rough average of 55 officers died from firearms in 2016-17. Traffic incidents (accidental and intentional, no breakdown given) took a rough average of 50 each year.

So that comes to some 20 civilians killed by police (mostly shot) for every officer killed by firearms.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 08:01
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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So that comes to some 20 civilians killed by police (mostly shot) for every officer killed by firearms.
And how many of those civilians were unarmed or unthreatening to the cops?
I don't know about you, but if someone points a gun at the police, I think they deserve to be shot...
I'm not disputing that mistakes are made - police are after all humans - but the odds of a law abiding citizen getting shot by the police (even those citizens of color) are much, much lower than the odds of their getting shot by a criminal.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 10:09
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
And how many of those civilians were unarmed or unthreatening to the cops?
I don't know about you, but if someone points a gun at the police, I think they deserve to be shot...
I'm not disputing that mistakes are made - police are after all humans - but the odds of a law abiding citizen getting shot by the police (even those citizens of color) are much, much lower than the odds of their getting shot by a criminal.
Except that in this case the victim didn't point a gun at the police. He didn't have a gun on him. There wasn't even a gun in the house. The cop killed him anyway.

Your need to observe that an innocent person would be in more danger of being shot by a criminal than a police officer is quite telling. In most countries this would be taken for granted.
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