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The Paradise Papers

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The Paradise Papers

Old 7th Nov 2017, 11:38
  #81 (permalink)  
EstŠ servira para distraerle.
 
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Should you wish your estate not to be penalised with death tax you will find that Britain imposes onerous restrictions on how you can spend your money for the benefit of your loved ones before you die.
If you want to split the hair, you're taxed when you earn, taxed when you spend and the government has an exercisable option to hit you with a really significant 40% of the value of absolutely everything you own or have given away in the seven tax years, that means eight calendar years before you die, when you die.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 11:46
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by UniFoxOs View Post
Er - that's twice. If you have spent it you haven't got it when you die.
When your kids inherit your house it is definitely the same money taxed three times.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 11:54
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
What it serves to do is highlight the system's shortcomings and ought to encourage legislators globally to do something about it. We know however that they will not, so it falls to journalists to highlight those, like Lewis Hamilton and Apple who are legally extracting the urine to be named and shamed.
If they have done nothing wrong what is there to ashamed about?

I absolutely 100% guarantee you do not pay a single penny more in tax than you need to and I am absolutely the same.

If you have a pension or are saving into a pension pot have you checked to see whether your pension fund managers are not using any off shore vehicles to maximise your contributions?

When we owned a second property we employed an accountant to ensure we only paid what we needed to pay to stay within the rules.

Now both of us here only receive our pensions we are satisfied that as we are paying our tax at source we are paying the correct amount.

If folk break the law then throw the book at them but until they do folk should step away from the politics of envy.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 11:56
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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I think this sums it all up

?Rich bastards using tax havens? report also claims bears defecate in woods
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 12:15
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Should you wish your estate not to be penalised with death tax you will find that Britain imposes onerous restrictions on how you can spend your money for the benefit of your loved ones before you die.
Voting Labour has its costs!
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 12:17
  #86 (permalink)  

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And the Head of State of:

a. Bermuda

AND

b. The Cayman Islands

is ....... err .... HM The Queen (Gord Bless 'Er)

So is she offshore or not????

Discuss.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 12:32
  #87 (permalink)  
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It is called VAT.
The government effectively tax both turnover and profits.
VAT may be calculated on turnover, but the whole lot is paid by the end user - the consumer. Meanwhile tax on profits is passed on in the price of the product so the tax is effectively paid by - yes, the consumer.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 12:45
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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The
re is absolutely no correlation between ISA's that are freely available to anyone at the click of a mouse or completing a simple form in a bank and complex tax avoidance schemes that only the rich can afford lawyers and accountants to conjour up.
There are many things in life which other people can afford, but which I cannot. It is quite possible that you own a much more expensive house and car than I do. Is that unfair? Should you be prevented from buying these things simply because I cannot buy them? If we were to do that, a great many people would suddenly find themselves out of work. Would that be an improvement?

Should we all share out all of our money so that we all have exactly the same purchasing capacity? If we were to do that a great many people would make no effort to earn a living.

Sad fact is your ordinary Joe pays tax by PAYE and pays every penny that HMG government asks of him. The small minority of wealthy people pay the least they can get away with. That is what is unfair.
A great many (probably most) self- employed people earn money which never appears on their accounts and tax returns. These are not wealthy people, but they are demonstrating exactly the same instincts as those people who put money into off-shore tax havens.

There is a very big difference between a wage earner receiving a tax concession on a pension (because that pension will reduce the amount of welfare they will draw from the state in retirement) and a company making billions of revenue and using complicated company structures to offshore their profits.
And guess what? Most pension funds own shares in the companies which you so despise. So the wage earners which you seek to champion are actually benefiting from these dreadful tax avoiding schemes through their stake-holder pension schemes.

How much tax have you paid in your life keith? Proportionally speaking you have almost certainly paid more than Apple.

Think about the government services and infrastructure that would have paid for. Or don't, if you think morality doesn't come into it.
It is not the proportions which pay for things like the NHS, it is the money. I have no idea how much tax I have paid over the years, but I am absolutely certain that the tax money (income tax, NI contributions, VAT, Corporation Tax) paid by companies like apple have paid for many more doctors, nurses and hospitals than I ever have. Just imagine what would happen if all those companies which you appear to hate were to suddenly shut-down tomorrow. How would things like the NHS fare then?

The fact that you are concentrating on proportions simply demonstrates the fact that your arguments are based on envy.

As I have said in my previous post, if governments wish to stop tax avoidance they can do so, simply by introducing watertight tax laws. If this is too much to for them to contemplate then they could make a small start by simply stopping introducing tax avoidance schemes.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 12:57
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Surely a fairer way of collecting taxes would be to tax turnover instead of profits?

Instead of taxing profits at 20%, tax turnover by 10%.

It is simplistic, but I think that is what is needed....simple tax law, that everyone can understand, and not manipulate in their favour.
Then companies who are going through a tough trading spell instead of possibly surviving go bust. Once you start making companies pay tax on losses unemployment would soar past 1930's levels.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:00
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
What it serves to do is highlight the system's shortcomings and ought to encourage legislators globally to do something about it. We know however that they will not, so it falls to journalists to highlight those, like Lewis Hamilton and Apple who are legally extracting the urine to be named and shamed.
Do you personally voluntarily pay more tax than HMRC demands?
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:02
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Do you personally voluntarily pay more tax than HMRC demands?
Yea right! That is about as likely as bears taking toilet paper with them when they go into the woods!
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:08
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Slightly off thread, but how about massively taxing any profit overseas buyers make on property in the UK? With the huge bulk buying of real estate - especially in London for investment purposes - and particularly by the Russians and Chinese, they are over inflating house prices to an extortionate degree. They are pricing our own youngsters and the poorly paid out of the property market and in many cases, pushing those individuals into the social housing sector, an additional cost to the state.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:22
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Do you personally voluntarily pay more tax than HMRC demands?
This was precisely the point I was making which is right at the heart of this politics of envy storm in a tea cup.

Every one of us pays what we owe, to do anything else is illegal and people will be punished for it.

What Labour love to do, and this thread proves that conclusively is the old divide and conquer tosh but all they end up doing is make envious people look foolish and smart people look even smarter than they are.

If Apple and the like are capable of employing legal folk who are able to find the most LEGAL tax efficient way of retaining their money and then follow that advice what precisely have Apple done wrong.

If those smart legal folk have run rings round HMRC and successive governments by finding a succession of LEGAL ways of helping Apple keep more of their hard earned money whose fault is that?

Massive clue is it aint Apple and it aint their legal people
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:23
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
Slightly off thread, but how about massively taxing any profit overseas buyers make on property in the UK? With the huge bulk buying of real estate - especially in London for investment purposes - and particularly by the Russians and Chinese, they are over inflating house prices to an extortionate degree. They are pricing our own youngsters and the poorly paid out of the property market and in many cases, pushing those individuals into the social housing sector, an additional cost to the state.
Whose fault is it that they can legally do that?
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:24
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
Yea right! That is about as likely as bears taking toilet paper with them when they go into the woods!
Lefties always want other people to pay more tax. Never themselves.
Then they want what their neighbour has worked for to be given to them.

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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:30
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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And in the bizarre world of Left-wing politics in the UK we now have Owen Jones in todays Guardian railing against tax avoidance. Of course he fails to mention that he is paid by a company that has relied on tax avoidance for decades to pay his salary...

The lack of self-awareness is stunning..


Tax avoidance may be legal but itís bankrupting our social order
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:34
  #97 (permalink)  

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SFP - You really do like being rogered by multi-nationals don't you!

They have no morals and get folk like you to defend them!

(Yeah I know, shouldn't bring morals into big business.)
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:38
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Owen, Owen, Owen, those on the left will be hanging their heads in their hands

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...-arrangements/

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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:39
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Why do so many use the term 'Rich Bastards'..
Discounting the unknowns of their parenthood why should someone who's proved hugely successful in their field be considered a Bastard ? Apple, Virgin, and other huge corporations employ goodness knows how many millions of people bringing stability to homes and families, individuals such as Lewis Hamilton and other sports stars, actors, musicians etc provide entertainment on a grand scale so why 'Bastards' ?
I get the feeling that those who use the term generally fall into the category of limited or no talent, little enterprise, low work ethic and an attitude that the world owes them more than they're getting.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 13:40
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by angels View Post
SFP - You really do like being rogered by multi-nationals don't you!

They have no morals and get folk like you to defend them!

(Yeah I know, shouldn't bring morals into big business.)
Nope, I have just spent the whole of my adult life not doing the envy thing
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