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The Paradise Papers

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The Paradise Papers

Old 6th Nov 2017, 13:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I have an offshore investment: a guy in Ireland owes me 2 pints. I believe it's inflation proof!

CG
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 13:52
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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To quote Leona Helmsley:

“We don’t pat taxes. Only the little people pay taxes.”

Net worth $8 billion.


The BBC were at great pains this morning to point out that there’s a massive legal difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Really?! When it comes down to it, it boils down to the same thing surely? All avoidance is, is having an financial advisor do evading for you.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 14:28
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
The BBC were at great pains this morning to point out that there’s a massive legal difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Really?! When it comes down to it, it boils down to the same thing surely?.
well apart from one being illegal and one not, yes they are both the same..
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 16:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently 3 of the actors from the BBC "comedy" series "Mrs Brown's Boys" have put over £2m into one of these schemes.

What surprises me is not the attempt to avoid tax, but the fact that they were able to earn these sums from appearing such puerile drivel!
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 16:13
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
Apparently 3 of the actors from the BBC "comedy" series "Mrs Brown's Boys" have put over £2m into one of these schemes.

What surprises me is not the attempt to avoid tax, but the fact that they were able to earn these sums from appearing such puerile drivel!
I would expect that the vast majority of their earnings will be from the live tour they have done, plus commission on the various bits of related merchandise. No danger the BBC are paying them that amount!
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 16:31
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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various bits of related merchandise.
The BBC makes a vast amount from vending such merchandise. Is that perhaps where the millions for that shite came from?
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:00
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Well I am sure that Queenie didn't know but then she or her advisers would be pretty daft not to tell their investment bank to stay away from dodgy places like Cayman and BVI who do not look that carefully at where the money comes from or dodgy companies so while she isnt to blame by deed she is by omission.

As for the generality there are different strands to this but a common thread

The strands are
1 Multinationals playing a catch me if you can game with tax authorites claiming that Cos Bucks coffee has to pay $1.0 for technical advice on every coffee sold and the advisors are Cos Bucks (Bermuda) Ltd

2 very rich people who already think they are above the law squirrelling away money in obscure offshore funds that shuffle money between BVI Cayman and of couirse Grand Daddy of them all Bermuda. If you have £200M and the government takes half from you , you are still mega rich. If you have £50K and the Government takes a third then you are just Joe public, its not percentages that should be used here

Nothing wrong with people making a lot of money but its got out of hand in recent years and the truth is we can no longer afford the super Rich while we cannot fund, NHS. the Armed Forces, education, elderly care. Maternity and infant care etc etc etc

3 Offshore funds are always dubious -living in Bermuda for 12 years i got to know a good number of people involved with these kinds of exercises. They would give three types of advice
1 What yo are doing is illegal, or you are clearly in the mafia -go somewhere else

2 What you are doing might well be considered illegal and is certainly immoral, we can help you with the first part but but not the second.

3 What you are doing is making a genuine investment in the country not just hiding money and that may be avoiding tax but it is a legitimate investment. We are happy to help as we don't see many people like you.

The common thread , well I wonder what that might be -oh yes the UK, how often do the same place names crop up Bermuda, Cayman , BVI, other Caribbean islands, Gibraltar, Mauritius , Hong Kong ; all remnants or relics of Empire. A lot of influential people have a lot at stake here and do not want to see change from the status quo . they tend to be able to influence Governments a great deal, some even finance those Governments , Mr Ashxxxft for example.

A much much larger number of people have just as much at stake, like the NHS they rely on, education for their children , care for their parents all of which are put at risk by people evading tax ( Oxford English dictionary, To Avoid , meaning to evade , and vice versa.) if you have a network of £2Bn and are one of the richest in the world and someone takes half of it you are still one of the richest in the world but tis time to play fair.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:07
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Ashxxxft for example.
That's Lord Ashxxxft to you!



I think most reasonable people would agree with the sentiments in your post P-B. I have only ever met a few very rich people, though, and without exception they seemed very interested in hanging on to every penny of their money, and operated on a different mindset to the rest of us, where they saw absolutely nothing wrong with avoiding tax as long as it was legal. Morals didn't come into it.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:19
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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TTN

He will always be Mr Ashcroft to me.

Unless he is transgender, is he?

PB

I was really only trying to make the point that the word can no longer afford to be owned by a tiny faction , not even one percentage point of the population.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe this is too simplistic, but to avoid having this becoming a ‘new hamsterwheel’, change the law so ‘Tax avoidance’ is illegal. Just make the law without any ‘grey’ areas. Change the status of these tax havens. It can be done, and maybe the Labour government might do this.......
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:32
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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What makes me laugh, and there’s another thread about this, about how you need to be identified up to your eyeballs, just to open a basic bank account - because of money laundering. But you can keep billions in an offshore account to hide it away from snooping authorities.

So, unless a potential money launderer is completely thick, where’s he going to move and stash his ill gotten gains? Certainly not at Barclays Bank, High Street, Wolverhampton!
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:34
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Maybe this is too simplistic, but to avoid having this becoming a ‘new hamsterwheel’, change the law so ‘Tax avoidance’ is illegal.
Exactly how would that work?. For example if I choose to avoid tax by increasing my pension contributions how can you make that illegal?
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:01
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Paradise Papers: Bono linked to tax probe in Lithuania - BBC News

https://www.one.org/us/person/bono/

“Bono has lobbied heads of state and members of legislatures all around the world. This lobbying, combined with the work of ONE’s grassroots membership has helped to ensure the passage and funding of government policies and programs that have helped to save tens of millions of lives over the past 10 years.“

And how does Mr Bono think the governments he has been lobbying fund these aid policies? Oh, I forgot, Mr Bono tries to avoid paying tax himself.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:12
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Paradise Papers: F1 champion Lewis Hamilton 'dodged' VAT on £16.5m private jet - BBC News

lewis involved as well
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:16
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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And now Lewis Hamilton is in the poo. It looks as though HMRC will be coming after him for a VAT refund. I think Mr Hamilton and his advisors may have seen this coming; his plane is now managed by an Austrian company and based in Vienna,along with a nre reg: OE-IXI and look at the name of the company "Laudamotion Gmbh".
Well I never!
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:17
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry scr1: You pipped me to the post as I was typing!
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:21
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Lewis Hamilton is tax resident in Monaco and has been for almost 10 years.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:26
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Maybe this is too simplistic, but to avoid having this becoming a ‘new hamsterwheel’, change the law so ‘Tax avoidance’ is illegal. Just make the law without any ‘grey’ areas. Change the status of these tax havens. It can be done, and maybe the Labour government might do this.......
And the people who have the investments there will simply move them elsewhere. Instead of HMRC getting some tax, they will end up getting bugger all.

You were right, simplistic.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 18:31
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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No doubt it is the reason that that well known thespian and scots nationalist S. Connery lives in Bermuda/Bahamas (I can never remember which tax haven that it is).
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 19:21
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Does coal-eyed Madam ("Commander RN") Wossername pay VAT on that Stearman wot she flies around the world solo?

Does Group Captain Charlie Victor pay VAT on her paraffin-burner, callsign November Charlie Victor?

OK, so the Commander RN might have paid for her RAF Flying Badge out of personal funds; and the game showgirl might have paid for appropriate webbing to compete with Section Officer Harvey for our attention, but we should be told!
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