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UK Car Insurance Scam

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UK Car Insurance Scam

Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:08
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UK Car Insurance Scam

It has gome to tje time of the year when I have to renew my car insurance. I have insured legal and General for 2015/2016 and renewed for with the same broker for the same price. I have now phone the same broker, and the same underwrite, Aegias, virtually same price, but no third party cover to drive other peoples cars, which I need, so for that the brokers wabt a further 40%!!!.

I should add that my premiumns are probably as low as you can get, in part because I have twenty years of no claims and no accidents, but lso in part because I have learnt the scams and hiddden rules that brokers and underwriters use, So here we go, and it getting worse:

(1) Some companies are starting to prevent using your no claims on two cars, so you might have a sports car for leisure, and another.

(2) Some policies exclude cover on airfields or airports.

(3) The years ago I changed cars, exactly the same model, engine size, number of valves, the only difference was the one car was blue and the other was green. But there was a 30% difference between the quotes. So I worked out that the insurance companies factor into the quote how long you have owned the car. why?

(4) Next thing is pointless questions, such as are you a homeowner, your relationship status, or how many children you have under the age of 16. What has that got to do with anything.

(5) Occupation, in the media it is often suggested that people mislead, so in the case of a Flying Instructor, describe yourself as a teacher, which you are, but I wonder the legal implications of doing so. I also question if the insurance industry have really looked at the correlation between occupations and risk. I think not, probably more a case of Publican = male high risk and risk of DUI, Nurses = mostly females, low risk, despite in part being night shift workers.

(6) Garages, do you keep your car in the garage, yes. What difference does that make, we know few people put their cars into a garage at night. I would imagine most people claim to have a garage. Most garage door locks can be forced, yet if my car is on the drive it has a Thatchem Imobiliser and alarm, that's good enough. The radio is of no use without the code.

((7) Nest is postcodes, have the insurance companies really made a correlation between different areas and risk, for eample NR27 and NR1, perhaps in terms of theft but not in terms of the policy holder causing an accident.

(7) Finally, MID (Motor Insurance Database) thisis acting lilike a credit agency for insurers.

i look forward to your comments.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:23
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Originally Posted by Homsap View Post
(4) Next thing is pointless questions, such as are you a homeowner, your relationship status, or how many children you have under the age of 16. What has that got to do with anything.
Driving with kids potential distraction, also at 16 potentuial for daddy to teach junior how to drive, house is for upselling but also homeowner seen as more financially stable

(5) Occupation, in the media it is often suggested that people mislead, so in the case of a Flying Instructor, describe yourself as a teacher, which you are, but I wonder the legal implications of doing so. I also question if the insurance industry have really looked at the correlation between occupations and risk. I think not, probably more a case of Publican = male high risk and risk of DUI, Nurses = mostly females, low risk, despite in part being night shift workers.
Oh they do and people with longer hours or night shift get loaded as greater potential for sleep deprived accident. Its why people working as musicians / artists or in pubs get more expensive as driving later and night maybe with alcohol.

((7) Nest is postcodes, have the insurance companies really made a correlation between different areas and risk, for eample NR27 and NR1, perhaps in terms of theft but not in terms of the policy holder causing an accident.
Oh they have and they check and will also block postcode quotes if there is a high incidence of claims for rear end crashes.


(7) Finally, MID (Motor Insurance Database) thisis acting lilike a credit agency for insurers.

i look forward to your comments.
MIB collates all the data on drivers and while may not like it, John Smith from Whitehaven has been involved in 8 accidents since 1999, he never states that when seeking insurance.

Do you want to pay your premiums to cover him ? or for his claims he made elsewhere ?
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:27
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statistics]

Claims statistics will have a lot to do with it........yes even what colour car you drive; personal and family details, house ownership etc provide the broker with an opportunity to target other insurance sales opportunities; driving other third party cars=increased underwriter exposure=higher premium.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:38
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Why? Because they can. And somebody (ie you) has to pay all the middlemen and executive bonuses.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:40
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These aren't scams though, are they? You might not like them, or find them infuriating, but they are not fraudulent...
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:53
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Since they are reflecting all the unscrupulous insurance scams out there, they use every trick in the book to get the money back from you, the poor long-term, long-suffering customer. I have a friend who changes companies every year, looking for the best deal, since he says every company will put your price up if you stay with them. I have found though that if I ask my company nicely for a cheaper deal (or I will go elsewhere), they have often helped me out with useful suggestions and adjustments in order to keep my account with them.


Here in Japan, though, car insurance rates are comparatively cheap, and stay largely the same, year after year after year.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 12:56
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The insurance industry has been criticised for selling lots of people insurance they don't need, with no ability to say "I don't want that bit of cover", so they have started un-bundling stuff and offering it as priced options instead.

Originally Posted by Homsap View Post
It has gome to tje time of the year when I have to renew my car insurance. I have insured legal and General for 2015/2016 and renewed for with the same broker for the same price. I have now phone the same broker, and the same underwrite, Aegias, virtually same price, but no third party cover to drive other peoples cars, which I need, so for that the brokers wabt a further 40%!!!.
This will be because it's a priced option. The price reflects statistical studies that show you are far less likely to have accidents in your own car (that you are familiar with) than you are in some other random car.

(1) Some companies are starting to prevent using your no claims on two cars, so you might have a sports car for leisure, and another.
As far as I am aware this has ALWAYS been the case except for a few specific deals. When I had a company car back in the 80s I had to sign my NCB over to the company, and then get it signed-back when I left for this very reason. When I had a "normal" car and a sunny-day kit-car I had to have two separate policies, each with it's own NCB accrual.

(2) Some policies exclude cover on airfields or airports.
Again, AFAIK this has always been the case unless you explcitly bought airside cover - it's simply a matter that a car that is airside can cause a far more expensive accident than one which is only on the road.

(3) The years ago I changed cars, exactly the same model, engine size, number of valves, the only difference was the one car was blue and the other was green. But there was a 30% difference between the quotes. So I worked out that the insurance companies factor into the quote how long you have owned the car. why?
Because the stats consistently show cars of some colours are more likely to have claims than others.In fact we can group these with the next three because the answer is the same, and you have made a false assumptiuon:

(4) Next thing is pointless questions, such as are you a homeowner, your relationship status, or how many children you have under the age of 16. What has that got to do with anything.

(5) Occupation, in the media it is often suggested that people mislead, so in the case of a Flying Instructor, describe yourself as a teacher, which you are, but I wonder the legal implications of doing so. I also question if the insurance industry have really looked at the correlation between occupations and risk. I think not, probably more a case of Publican = male high risk and risk of DUI, Nurses = mostly females, low risk, despite in part being night shift workers.

(6) Garages, do you keep your car in the garage, yes. What difference does that make, we know few people put their cars into a garage at night. I would imagine most people claim to have a garage. Most garage door locks can be forced, yet if my car is on the drive it has a Thatchem Imobiliser and alarm, that's good enough. The radio is of no use without the code.

((7) Nest is postcodes, have the insurance companies really made a correlation between different areas and risk, for eample NR27 and NR1, perhaps in terms of theft but not in terms of the policy holder causing an accident.
You are completely wrong when you suggest insurance companies "haven't looked into correlations". Insurance companies live and die on their ability to understand the statistical data, and they run expensive actuarial departments to monitor and update the stats on a weekly basis to allow them to tread the fine line bewteen competitive prices and loss-leaders. The statistical analyses just look at data. If the data suggest that having children under 16 makes you more likely to claim, and that trend is a feature across many time periods then they will make this a pricing factor. They don't care about the reasonm, although it's easy to see examples - like if you have kids then you are more likely to be called out to be "dad's taxi" late at night when you're tired. People of some occupations are far more likely to have claims - they data have ALWAYS shown this (it's not a new thing). Cars not stored in garages are more likely to have accidents in the winter because they are more often driven off with partially defrosted windows. Post codes are relevant because the data clearly show some post codes have higher claim rates than others etc etc. All of this is data-driven.

(7) Finally, MID (Motor Insurance Database) thisis acting lilike a credit agency for insurers.
No, it's just stopping people telling porkies to get a lower quote by fraud. The existance of the MID firstly saves everyoine loads of money because it removes the need for each insurance company to run its own data-verification and investigation department. It secondly it provides a "single point of truth" on whether a car is insured or not - avoiding the need for individual police cuntstables to be able to tell a real cover note from a fake one knocked up in a PC.

Remember that an insurance contract is legally a contract of "Utmost Good Faith" which means that if you tell lies to get insured then your cover is void. That's putting it simplistically, but the point is that the insurance company doesn't have to demand every piece of pertinent information - it is up to you to tell them of ANYTHING which might be relevant, and if you withold anything the insurance company doesn't have to proove it was relevant to deny a claim.

0.0001 supplied,

PDR
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 13:02
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Since they are reflecting all the unscrupulous insurance scams out there, they use every trick in the book to get the money back from you, the poor long-term, long-suffering customer. I have a friend who changes companies every year, looking for the best deal, since he says every company will put your price up if you stay with them. I have found though that if I ask my company nicely for a cheaper deal (or I will go elsewhere), they have often helped me out with useful suggestions and adjustments in order to keep my account with them.


Here in Japan, though, car insurance rates are comparatively cheap, and stay largely the same, year after year after year.
Do you have many of these in Japan?


https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/ei...063216.article
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 13:39
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Sitigeldfel, no, (well not to the same extent ) and that is what I am suggesting, that the insurance companies are passing the burgeoning scam onto us, so that they do not suffer.


In other words, it is we who are are being increasingly scammed in line with the rise in this type of crime.


I would prefer to pay this increase temporarily to the police or whoever can deal with and completely extinguish any occurrence of this kind of crime.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 13:44
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Oh, and the scum who tried this on in your link were fined a token 200 GBP, about how much each and every driver in the UK has to pay in increases in a bad year. All that suppressed anger in the UK should have seen them banged them away for years.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 13:52
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Insurance companies passing on the cost of scams is no different to supermarkets passing on the cost of shoplifting.

The customer always pays.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 13:54
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Here in Viking land it is really simple. Call insurance company, give make, model, year. Give your name and birth date, receive quote.
I pay exactly the same for my 280 hp Skoda Superb Estate as I did for my 2012 170 hp ditto.
You Brits are overbureucratisised.
Per
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 14:20
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Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
Here in Viking land it is really simple. Call insurance company, give make, model, year. Give your name and birth date, receive quote.
I pay exactly the same for my 280 hp Skoda Superb Estate as I did for my 2012 170 hp ditto.
You Brits are overbureucratisised.
Per
That's a very polite way of putting it......personally, I would prefer the term profiteering and rip-off culture.

Recently got a quote from a "suburb of Manchester" for a renewal....at a mere 483 what a bargain !.......along with the "you do not have to do anything, we will simply screw your bank account for payment " blurb.

Sadly, one was "less than impressed " with this fantastic offer....and a brief search produced several quotes, all around the 200 mark, for, erm, the same cover and for fulfilling all the criteria.

The only, and they all came up with this one, addition was when asked if I was a volunteer and I said yes...."ah, that's another ( anything between 5 to 15 then ".....even though it's unpaid volunteering .... you have to pay because, if you have an accident and you've not declared such, then seemingly you are not using your vehicle for the "domestic and leisure " bit only and a claim can be void.....allegedly.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 16:34
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Someone told me that if you are a named driver on another persons insurance policy then if they have an accident/claim then your own policy price will get hiked at next renewal. Even though you had nothing at all to do with the claim accident/incident on the other persons policy, because you are "linked" to them via the database your cost goes up regardless. Is there any truth in this or is it just Jackanory?
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 16:38
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I haven't tried this but, according to my brother, it can pay to go for a fully comp policy even when you may think the car is not worth it and third party only would do. His theory is that if you are choosing third party only, you are probably a boy racer or at least someone who is not expecting his car to survive unscathed for any length of time and the premium will be higher.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 16:38
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Renewal prices are hiked as a matter of course. A lot of people don't want the bother of shopping around, so they just pay what is asked. A sort of loyalty bonus, but to them not to you.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 17:45
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Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
You Brits are overbureucratisised.
Yet the cost of my insurance in the UK was roughly 1/3 as much as it is here in Canada.

Largely because the UK insurance companies take account of far more info when they decide how big a risk you are. Though I guess they can't do that so easily when every policy here is an 'all drivers' policy, so anyone could be driving the car when it crashes.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 17:48
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I volunteer two mornings a week at my local library. I mentioned this when it came to renew my car insurance. They said thanks for telling us and promptly added 30 to my policy!
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 17:56
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(
5) Occupation, in the media it is often suggested that people mislead, so in the case of a Flying Instructor, describe yourself as a teacher, which you are, but I wonder the legal implications of doing so. I also question if the insurance industry have really looked at the correlation between occupations and risk. I think not, probably more a case of Publican = male high risk and risk of DUI, Nurses = mostly females, low risk, despite in part being night shift workers.

Seems correct.

Our friends' son is a Professional Golfer in the UK.

When he gave this as his occupation to the first insurer he called, his quoted cost for a fairly mundane Ford Escort was astronomical.

The next insurer he called, he said he was a Shop Assistant - after all, he spends more time working in his own Pro Shop at the club to which he is attached than he does playing competitions and low level tournements - and the quoted cost was less than 50% of the first quote.
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Old 30th Oct 2017, 18:26
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Many years ago a work colleague invented a mythical worst risk candidate. "One armed Greek greyhound trainer".
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