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Arrested by a private company?

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Arrested by a private company?

Old 25th Oct 2017, 00:41
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Arrested by a private company?

I've just put this on my public FB.

I meant what I wrote. With no limits. No reserve. Deayton's words burnt into my brain all those years ago. It didn't do a great deal of good. America has doubled its prison population.

I think perhaps the British government still underestimates the the sheer rage lying in the hearts of the quiet Englishman.

Never. And I mean it with my last breath.

The Americans have created a new slave trade. Build new prisons. Work or be punished. Three times and you're out, and other devices to collect humanity. What other word is there for it?

Angus Deayton's words left an audience breathless with much those words. It was supposed to be a comedy show, but the laughing stopped and stunned silence prevailed.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 00:58
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Huh??? Wtf are you on about??? Most of your posts make no sense, but this one is the worst. I'm not even gonna do an internet search to see what you are talking about...
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 05:15
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Loose Rivets? Screw Loose more like it.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 06:12
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Have I not got news for you?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 07:36
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One would like to heartily agree.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 07:45
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The Slavery Loophole?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 08:49
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Without in any way intending to be narcissistic, I detect a Conrad as the problem here.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 08:58
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Does the private company in question own a distillery, by any chance?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 10:51
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If you misbehave 3 times in jail, do they chuck you out? I see a snag there...

CG
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 16:25
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Have I not got news for you?
Deayton was kicked off that programme years ago.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 00:02
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Oh dear. In a sleeping tablet dulled, and apoplectic counter-emotion of rage, somehow the main point was left out of the PPRuNe post, though not the FB post.

I was nicely calm for a rare night's sleep when I saw this and it did little for my 180 degree sleep pattern anomaly - for which I'm being treated.

It also has to be said, that if I were to commit a crime for which I was deeply contrite - say drink-driving and hurting someone - I would have little regard for my principals and not care much what happened to me. However, if say, I owed money to someone and a court decided I should be hauled before the judge, sending a load of private company employees to my home - with handcuffs - would probably coincide with my last day.

If anyone thinks it's a good idea to give such short-term employees the power to handcuff British citizens then they can't have been paying attention to modern history for most of their lives. Give an untrained, untested, unsuitable person power over his fellow man you can expect to see examples of the worst kind of human behaviour.

Mind you, I've been pretty disappointed by some of the behaviour of career policemen. Deeply disappointed. But at least they've devoted a large part of their lives to that career.

The link to America is valid as an example of the way people can be enslaved in the modern world - even in the land of the free. A world leading 1M prisoners is soon to be 2M.

Obama recognised this abhorrent fact and was doing something about it. I'm not sure a person with the conscience of an angel is quite right for that top job.

And the point of all this IN THE UK - before tonight's pill kicks in.

In a shocking 290m privatisation deal, Serco and G4S – the same two companies who were stripped of contracts for tagging prisoners because a Serious Fraud Office investigation revealed they were charging for tagging people who didn’t exist – are going to be trusted with the handcuffs by the government.

Essentially, the proposals would see G4S staff given the powers of Civilian Enforcement Officers. That is, authorised officers/employees of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service becoming vested with the power to seize and sell goods to recover money owed under fines and community penalty notices, and to execute warrants of arrest, committal, detention and restraint.

The sticking point here is that although much of the recovery and enforcement arms of the Court service has long been outsourced to ‘Authorised’ Enforcement Officers (employees of various other private companies), the line has until now been drawn at outsourcing the power of arrest.

Last edited by Loose rivets; 26th Oct 2017 at 02:12.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 00:04
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couldn't they just call the cops?
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 00:30
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Cheaper to use a bunch of security guards than proper police gileraguy
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 00:32
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Originally Posted by gileraguy View Post
couldn't they just call the cops?
What cops?
A few months ago we lost our Neighbourhood Beat Officer.
This left a very competent PCSO (Police Community Support Officer) who had worked alongside the NBO, however she has now been transferred 'to the Midlands' where she will adopt the duties of a full police officer.

Meanwhile, we have no allocated police presence for our community.

Meanwhile, Norfolk has dispensed with all 150 of their PCSOs.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 02:02
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Norfolk is replacing the PCSOs with fully accredited officers. The pay differential between a PCSO and a PC with full powers of arrest is £1,800 per annum. Then there are the Specials who work for nothing other than expenses and who are also fully accredited police officers.

PCSOs have no extra powers over those that can be exercised by ordinary citizens, they just have a stab proof vest and a radio to call for assistance when things get out of hand.

Financially and from a practical policing point of view, Norfolk is making the correct choice given the limited financial resources available and a complete lack of air cover.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 06:57
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What cops?
BBC: “In 1960, as the iconic Dixon was patrolling Dock Green, there were 46 million people in England and Wales and 72,000 police. In 2010 there are 54 million people and 144,000 police.

In other words, while the population has risen 17%, police numbers have increased 100%. That means that in 1960 there were, roughly, 640 people per police officer in England and Wales. Now there are 375 people for each one.“
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 08:11
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As someone who "arrested" a robber, caught in the act, some years ago, using a fair bit of force to restrain him and stop him running off, I was told that it was lawful for any member of the public to arrest someone if they had reasonable grounds for suspecting that they had committed an offence.

There is a slight snag, in that by arresting someone you are committing assault, so you need to be confident that the offence that you believe has been committed is serious enough to outweigh the need to commit assault in order to detain the suspect. There's also the same reasonable force point that applies to the police.

In my case, I was cautioned the moment that I reached the point when giving my statement where I mentioned grabbing the thief. I questioned this caution (the usual UK version of the US "Miranda" one) and that was when the detective constable taking my statement explained the law regarding a citizen making an arrest, the fact that both an ordinary citizen and a police officer were committing common assault when making an arrest, and how this was effectively over-ruled in the case where the arrest was justified by the suspicion of more serious offence (or words along those lines, this was a few years ago now).

So, isn't this really a bit of a non-story? I can't see that, in reality, any additional "powers" are being granted at all.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 08:24
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Norfolk is replacing the PCSOs with fully accredited officers. The pay differential between a PCSO and a PC with full powers of arrest is £1,800 per annum. Then there are the Specials who work for nothing other than expenses and who are also fully accredited police officers.

PCSOs have no extra powers over those that can be exercised by ordinary citizens, they just have a stab proof vest and a radio to call for assistance when things get out of hand.

Financially and from a practical policing point of view, Norfolk is making the correct choice given the limited financial resources available and a complete lack of air cover.
The PCSOs carry out a distinct role of Police Officers though and their loss will without doubt be detrimental to the communities for which they previously served. There is no chance that the PCs recruited to replace them will step into the same or similar roles.

Sad times.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 08:26
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
As someone who "arrested" a robber, caught in the act, some years ago, using a fair bit of force to restrain him and stop him running off, I was told that it was lawful for any member of the public to arrest someone if they had reasonable grounds for suspecting that they had committed an offence.

There is a slight snag, in that by arresting someone you are committing assault, so you need to be confident that the offence that you believe has been committed is serious enough to outweigh the need to commit assault in order to detain the suspect. There's also the same reasonable force point that applies to the police.

In my case, I was cautioned the moment that I reached the point when giving my statement where I mentioned grabbing the thief. I questioned this caution (the usual UK version of the US "Miranda" one) and that was when the detective constable taking my statement explained the law regarding a citizen making an arrest, the fact that both an ordinary citizen and a police officer were committing common assault when making an arrest, and how this was effectively over-ruled in the case where the arrest was justified by the suspicion of more serious offence (or words along those lines, this was a few years ago now).

So, isn't this really a bit of a non-story? I can't see that, in reality, any additional "powers" are being granted at all.
Correct, none story. As well as the fact that private security firms have been, for example, transiting prisoners and detaining prisoners (utilising both force and restraints) for the courts for as long as i can remember.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 08:27
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I was told that it was lawful for any member of the public to arrest someone if they had reasonable grounds for suspecting that they had committed an offence.

That needs clarification - the exact point you make there is correct, but it's worth reading this web article for a much fuller and more accurate version of what I was going to write, but if you arrest as a private citizen under the wrong circumstances then you may be liable to all sorts of redress.

If I were there, I'd stretch the "breach of the peace" definition quite far and detain an individual until the police arrived. BoP is a much more general thing whereas a specific offence, unless you know your legislation, much easier to get wrong for a private person.
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