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when technology doesn't do what you want

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when technology doesn't do what you want

Old 1st Sep 2017, 21:31
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when technology doesn't do what you want

This weekend I am going to be camping, you know, in a tent, close to my car, close enough to connect my camping light to the car battery. There is just one problem. Both of my cars have keyless entry and keyless starting and both illuminate the courtesy light if you pass near (4 or 5 meters near) to the vehicle. Just touching the door handle when the fob is within range unlocks the car doors. Not what you want someone doing while you are in your tent in the night. A week ago I asked the dealer how to temporarily disable the keyless entry. They have yet to get back to me. I could have the fob in bits to remove the battery when I go to my tent but I have a better idea. It might also help with the risk of theft of the car using one of the publicised methods.
I'll tell you if it works/worked when I get back on Monday.

Andrew.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 02:02
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All you need to do is prevent the car from detecting the fob by screening the fob from radio waves. A makeshift Faraday cage is the best method. Just wrap the key fob in several layers of aluminium foil, or stick it in a sealed metal can. An old tobacco tin would probably work.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 06:47
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...=2ZUXF7VSI5DPC

Also available in an outdoor shop near you ;-)

Oooooooh Matron!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTi5DzMsK3c
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 08:05
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As it happens I have two vintage waterproof Faraday's cages large enough to accommodate a bunch of keys.

They were made by Gold Leaf.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 08:38
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" I'll tell you if it works/worked when I get back on Monday

An international readership awaits with a combination of sleepless nights and bated breath for the next enthralling chapter in this angst riddled dilemma.....
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 08:51
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KnC Why always the caustic response on a forum essentially is only there for a bit of amusement?
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 09:06
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Of course if his car has gone he might take longer getting home.

What happens if a keyless car is opened and started while the owner is outside and a thief drives off? Does the car stop when out of range of the key?

Imagine driving down a motorway at 70 and the key battery going flat.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 09:18
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Given the spate of villains using amplifier devices to spoof keyless entry systems, we've taken to putting our keys inside an old metal key safe I had in the garage. I gave it a coat of white spray paint, screwed it to the utility room wall and now we keep all the keys in it, on the integral hooks.


I'm under no illusions that the metal box would deter a thief from breaking in to it and stealing the keys, but it does work very well at disabling keyless entry. Before screwing it to the wall I tried it out, with my key fob inside it, and the car didn't respond even with the box right next to the car.

For camping, PN's idea of a tobacco tin would seem ideal. It would also keep the key fob protected and dry when not in use.

Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What happens if a keyless car is opened and started while the owner is outside and a thief drives off? Does the car stop when out of range of the key?
The car keeps going. There are videos on YouTube of thieves using amplifiers to break in and start cars parked in front of people's homes, and the car will keep on going quite happily without the fob. If it's stopped, then it won't restart, though.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 10:12
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VP, if that car has a stop/start system will that then fail or will the ignition remain active?

PS, I will amend my eBay sales
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 10:33
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
VP, if that car has a stop/start system will that then fail or will the ignition remain active?

PS, I will amend my eBay sales
Sadly I don't know, as I've only tried it (by accident) with my car, which stays turned on all the time. My accidental test was at a French supermarket, where I dropped my other half off by the door whilst I went to park some distance away. When I came to lock the car after parking I found I couldn't, as she had the key fob in her bag..............
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 12:23
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This afternoon I pulled up behind a turning Tesla and its rear LED indicator wasn't working. My car is 17 years old and all 6 of the original factory indicator light bulbs are still working.

Seems like the measure of progress is the need to carry a Faraday cage. I guess the programmers that designed that system must wear tin foil hats in their daily lives.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 12:34
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I've mentioned it before on PPRuNe, but not had a good answer... assuming you are a competent driver able to perform hill starts quite happily, what is the point of an electrically operated handbrake? I can't see any advantages over a conventional mechanical brake. Just seems to be an over-engineered system which will be expensive to sort when it goes wrong.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 12:39
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Cattle truck, story of progress. Stuff used to last forever. Over engineered, every one has one, no more sales and company goes bust.

Then they reduce the build until it lasts guarantee period plus a day. Components are sealed, riveted, and unrepairable.

Failing that they change the colour so you can't add or replace part of a set, or it goes out of fashion. Job done.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 13:10
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
I've mentioned it before on PPRuNe, but not had a good answer... assuming you are a competent driver able to perform hill starts quite happily, what is the point of an electrically operated handbrake? I can't see any advantages over a conventional mechanical brake. Just seems to be an over-engineered system which will be expensive to sort when it goes wrong.
I can see a use case for anyone without the strength in the relevant arm to pull a conventional lever, but that's about it. I made my last car choice partly based on not wanting one!
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 13:17
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
I've mentioned it before on PPRuNe, but not had a good answer... assuming you are a competent driver able to perform hill starts quite happily, what is the point of an electrically operated handbrake? I can't see any advantages over a conventional mechanical brake. Just seems to be an over-engineered system which will be expensive to sort when it goes wrong.
If you have a car with hill start assist, then what's the point of using the handbrake when driving, anyway?

My car just sits at junctions etc on hills without the brakes on at all, with the systems applying exactly enough torque to the driven wheels to keep the car stationary. Pulling off just requires the accelerator pedal to be pushed.

As it happens, it doesn't have an electric "hand brake", but a pedal operated parking brake, similar to the system Mercedes have used for many years. I can't say that I've ever felt the need to use the parking brake, except when either parked, or in a long queue of stationary traffic, where I really only use it out of consideration for the driver behind, who may well not like having my brake lights shining in his/her face for ten minutes.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 13:18
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Andytug, me too! I have dismissed the idea of buying two cars in the past because one had an electric handbrake and the other had headlight lamps that couldn't be changed without dismantling half of the front end. Both French....
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 13:47
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The principal point of an electric handbrake is to save manufacturing costs; the convenience or otherwise to the driver is academic, although they wil still sell it as a great advance!
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 15:00
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you need to do is prevent the car from detecting the fob by screening the fob from radio waves. A makeshift Faraday cage is the best method. Just wrap the key fob in several layers of aluminium foil, or stick it in a sealed metal can. An old tobacco tin would probably work.
Are you saying that a tinfoil hat will stop all those voices in my head as well?
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 15:47
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Originally Posted by BizJetJock View Post
The principal point of an electric handbrake is to save manufacturing costs; the convenience or otherwise to the driver is academic, although they wil still sell it as a great advance!
If you have no need to use the parking brake (a.k.a. "handbrake") when the car is in motion, then why can't it just be a pedal or push button?

I'll admit to not liking pedal operated parking brakes, I've owned four cars with them over the past 20 years and don't much like the things. I'd actually prefer a push button, or even an automatic parking brake that operates when the car is parked.

Given that a fair few cars have "hill hold" or "hill start assist" or something similar, built-in, the hand brake has become a thing that's only normally used when the car is parked. The days when it was there as an emergency brake have really gone, now we have braking systems with built-in failure detection and redundancy.

Both my last two cars would just sit stationary on a hill when in forward gear, no matter how steep the hill is, and never roll back at all. When the accelerator is depressed they just move off, with no drama and no need to faff around balancing the clutch, fiddling with the handbrake or whatever. I wonder quite why we ever stuck with something as bizarre as using the parking brake as a way of preventing a car from rolling back during a hill start; a task it was never originally designed to do and one it was often ergonomically not designed for, either. It also meant having to pull off with only one hand on the steering wheel, not much fun when making a sharp turn immediately after pulling off on a slope.
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Old 2nd Sep 2017, 15:59
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Andytug, me too! I have dismissed the idea of buying two cars in the past because one had an electric handbrake and the other had headlight lamps that couldn't be changed without dismantling half of the front end. Both French....
That's another thing I've never understood, given that a lot of European countries require you by law to carry spare bulbs and be able to fit them by the side of the road, how can a manufacturer sell a car that needs half the front end taking apart to change a headlamp or side bulb?
Ford Focus, Golf, etc etc....
Again somehow Vauxhall have it so this isn't needed (as long as you haven't got massive hands, that is....)
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