Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

USS John S. McCain vs Alnic MC

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

USS John S. McCain vs Alnic MC

Old 2nd Nov 2017, 09:47
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by wetbehindear View Post

Actually bolded part of report a little bit misleading; vessels does not come into grips of RoR untill “in sight of one another” as per Rule 11 which at night that is range of nav lights visibility : 6 nm not 30 minutes. Additionally crystal is not required of anything untill "in extremis"
IIRC, during the bit on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea during the yacht master course, it was drummed into us time and time again that if we were in command of the vessel with the right of way then we MUST NOT take avoiding action until the situation became extreme, as doing so would be likely to increase, rather than decrease, the risk of collision. The assumption was that the give way vessel MUST take action, and I remember being taught that if I was the skipper of the give way vessel then I must make that avoiding action "clear and visible". It was suggested that a 90 deg course change away from the CPA, perhaps with a reduction in speed, would clearly indicate to the vessel that had the right of way that we had seen the potential collision risk and were actively avoiding it.

If that is still how the COLREGs are taught, then I would not have expected the Crystal to take any action until a collision was imminent, as to do so in such congested waters would be in itself a potential breach of the COLREGs, I think.
VP959 is online now  
Old 2nd Nov 2017, 16:10
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Under a recently defunct flight path.
Age: 73
Posts: 1,095
In The Times today:-

Pentagon reveals embarrassing details of warship collisions that left 17 sailors dead
Lyneham Lad is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 08:08
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 796
USS Fitzgerald is currently being loaded on the heavy lift vessel Transshelf and is due to start the long journey back to the US for repairs within the next couple of days. Transshelf wears a Curacao flag. No heavy list vessels available on the US register?
KelvinD is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 11:20
  #224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 66
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
USS Fitzgerald is currently being loaded on the heavy lift vessel Transshelf and is due to start the long journey back to the US for repairs within the next couple of days. Transshelf wears a Curacao flag. No heavy list vessels available on the US register?
Flag of convenience. Owner? Anyone's guess.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...erchant_Marine
Per
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 11:58
  #225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sao Paulo
Age: 75
Posts: 792
Anyone's guess? C'mon Per, Transshelf is owned and operated by Dockwise, one of the largest heavy lift operators in the world. As for US H/L companies, I don't think I've ever come across one. There was a US based one called West India Line but if I'm not mistaken, their small ships were Panama registered.
broadreach is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 13:25
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 66
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by broadreach View Post
Anyone's guess? C'mon Per, Transshelf is owned and operated by Dockwise, one of the largest heavy lift operators in the world. As for US H/L companies, I don't think I've ever come across one. There was a US based one called West India Line but if I'm not mistaken, their small ships were Panama registered.
Docwise is a holding company, I bet the vessels are each owned by some mysterious mail box company located in some mysterious tax haven.
Then again I've been out of the shipping jungle for some time.
Never heard of any US HL-vessels either, maybe their real navy? Seems like one could come in handy.
Per (ret)
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2017, 07:09
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 796
There a few US flagged heavy lift vessels out there, although a couple of them are incorrectly classified by Equasis as General Cargo.
Some examples are:
Norfolk IMO 9418975
John Glenn IMO 9647526
Ocean Jazz IMO 9509970
Transshelf is "owned" by Transshelf BV. Which is owned by Dockwise BV, which is owned by Baskalis.
And the ship is still anchored in Tokyo Bay.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2017, 07:59
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
I bet the vessels are each owned by some mysterious mail box company located in some mysterious tax haven.
Like Delaware?
arketip is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2017, 08:17
  #229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 66
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by arketip View Post
Like Delaware?
That's one.
Per
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 00:36
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Navy takes no prisoners:

Navy files homicide charges against commanders of 2 ships in deadly crashes | Fox News

Serious charges against commanders, and others on watch. I think they mean business.
ethicalconundrum is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 01:32
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 266
Turn to port... go to court
SARF is online now  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 01:56
  #232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 26
Mariners have it easy, Airman have I think 4 options up, down, right or left., when it starts to look ugly; at sea there is only one rule, right hand down. As far as being the "stand on vessel", you do so at your peril, it becomes your responsibility to take avoiding action when collision appears imminent, a number of masters have stood on just a bit too long and the board of inquiry has found them to have contributed to the collision much to their consternation. In my case a CPA of 1 mile was the closest I would approach a give way vessel. Most marine collisions are the result of fatigue,[under manning] boredom, and/or head office pressure, with the grog sometimes playing a part. Reefrat the master mariner
reefrat is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 03:09
  #233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,295
Serious charges against commanders, and others on watch. I think they mean business.
The charges sound like a big show, with little chance of them sticking.

If they want to impress the taxpayer then they need to move upward above the ship company.
lomapaseo is online now  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 21:33
  #234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: long island
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
The charges sound like a big show, with little chance of them sticking.

If they want to impress the taxpayer then they need to move upward above the ship company.
Without checking back, I seem to recall at least two and maybe three flag officers have been removed from their positions as a direct result of these two crashes.
finfly1 is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 19:45
  #235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 169
This video is from 2007 so collisions are not new.

Navy Boats Collide At Full Speed Video Break

.
Nervous SLF is offline  
Old 14th May 2018, 07:04
  #236 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,688
Originally Posted by finfly1 View Post
Without checking back, I seem to recall at least two and maybe three flag officers have been removed from their positions as a direct result of these two crashes.
one of whom was days from retirement?
Pontius Navigator is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.