PPRuNe Forums


Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th Aug 2017, 21:02   #81 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,690
The appalling ignorance of that post is depressing. HIV started in Africa amongst the heterosexual community and is still most prevalent there, the gay community in the West is just the most vocal and rich - and hence driven the research for a cure.

https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/overv...bal-statistics

"...There were approximately 36.7 million people worldwide living with HIV/AIDS at the end of 2015. Of these, 1.8 million were children (<15 years old)......

The vast majority of people living with HIV are in low- and middle-income countries. Sub-Saharan Africa is the most affected region, with an estimated 25.6 million people living with HIV in 2015. About 66% of new HIV infections in 2015 occurred in sub-Saharan Africa......"
ORAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Aug 2017, 21:36   #82 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 780
ORAC

Having lived and worked for a number of years in central, south and sub Saharan Africa I would be the last to dispute those statistics. However, we're concerned here with the effect it's had on western and in particular the UK society where the HIV virus and all that it entails is centered on drug and homosexual groups. The vast majority of the population don't consider the prevalence of the virus a plus to be celebrated.
MungoP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Aug 2017, 21:50   #83 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,690
Quote:
The vast majority of the population don't consider the prevalence of the virus a plus to be celebrated.
Are you suggesting anybody does? I know a lot of gays who have lost partners and. Lot who who have HIV, none do.

The fact that an equal number of heterosexual people have HIV in the UK is undoubtedly a reflection of immigration to the UK from Africa - but it is spreading and equally a cost factor.
ORAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Aug 2017, 22:30   #84 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 70
Posts: 426
Quote:
The fact that an equal number of heterosexual people have HIV in the UK is undoubtedly a reflection of immigration to the UK from Africa - but it is spreading and equally a cost factor
The Terence Higgins Trust would not agree with your numbers. Especially the African bit. They say that 16% of cases diagnosed last year were with people born in Africa. And cases among homosexuals outnumber heterosexuals by about 1.5:1
KelvinD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 04:57   #85 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,690
I refer back to the official government statistics I linked to at post #47.

UK HIV Statistics | National AIDS Trust - NAT

"Over 95% of people living with HIV in the UK have acquired HIV through sex without a condom. People living with HIV who were exposed through heterosexual sex are the largest group, though those exposed through sex between men is a close second. Of those receiving HIV care in 2015, 41,945 (48%) were exposed through sex between a man and a woman, 41,016 (47%) were exposed through sex between men. 1,909 (2%) were exposed from injecting drug use, 1,383 (less than 2%) were exposed before or shortly after birth and 753 were exposed from blood/receiving blood products.......".

http://www.nat.org.uk/sites/default/...2014-FINAL.pdf

".....People from sub-Saharan African comprise one of the largest and most recently arrived BME communities in the UK, accounting for 1.8% of the UK resident population. Black African people are also disproportionately affected by HIV, in 2012 comprising 34% of all those diagnosed with HIV in the UK......"

Last edited by ORAC; 11th Aug 2017 at 06:20.
ORAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 06:08   #86 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Socially, I live in a multicultural world, with a contemporary and open minded approach to life, and people.
When ISIS start throwing GBLTs off of The Shard in a few years, which side do you plan to support?

The 'multicultural' left is the biggest threat to GBLTs, and, once they realize that, they'll switch to the right overnight. In America, plenty already have.
MG23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 06:38   #87 (permalink)
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG23 View Post
When ISIS start throwing GBLTs off of The Shard in a few years, which side do you plan to support?

The 'multicultural' left is the biggest threat to GBLTs, and, once they realize that, they'll switch to the right overnight. In America, plenty already have.
And the winner of the JB " Surreal Visionary of the year" award is....!

Quite what your vision of the future, and the correlation between the extensive BBC coverage of LGBT lifestyle and social inclusion is ( this was the original topic you may vaguely recall ?).... will surely go down in the annals of history here on JB when it comes the thread drift.
Krystal n chips is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 08:09   #88 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 346
I remember chatting about where HIV had come from with my ex-boss years ago, who had been a prominent epidemiologist at Imperial College before moving to work for MoD. IIRC, he said that the most likely way that the virus started infecting the human population was a mutation from a similar form that exists within primates.

His view was that human contact with, or consumption of, primate flesh had caused the virus to spread to humans and then evolve so that it could survive and be readily transferred from human to human. I can't remember how long ago he said this transfer had probably happened, but I remember being surprised by the timescale - it was several decades before the disease was first recognised in humans in the West.

Although this chap and I never got on at all, I respect his opinion. According to his information, the disease seems to have first infected humans in Africa, long before it was ever seen in the West, and so it is not at all surprising that we now appear to have a greater incidence of HIV on that continent than elsewhere.
VP959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 08:41   #89 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 780
In response to the apologists speaking for the gay sector who would have us believe that HIV is almost as prevalent within the heterosexual community I would point out that if you take needle sharing drug addicts and Bisexuals out of the equation there would be virtually no instance of the virus threatening the larger community. The early victims of the virus were exclusively among the very promiscuous gays of the US west coast and only spread slowly through the 'straight' community through the two examples listed. Anal sex among the heterosexual community will also risk spreading the virus. Maybe if the Beeb had been more focused on warning of the risks of Bisexual behaviour and less concerned about social attitudes the virus would have been more contained.
MungoP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 08:56   #90 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by MungoP View Post
In response to the apologists speaking for the gay sector who would have us believe that HIV is almost as prevalent within the heterosexual community I would point out that if you take needle sharing drug addicts and Bisexuals out of the equation there would be virtually no instance of the virus threatening the larger community. The early victims of the virus were exclusively among the very promiscuous gays of the US west coast and only spread slowly through the 'straight' community through the two examples listed. Anal sex among the heterosexual community will also risk spreading the virus. Maybe if the Beeb had been more focused on warning of the risks of Bisexual behaviour and less concerned about social attitudes the virus would have been more contained.
Not true.

The earliest victims of HIV were people in Africa who had come into contact with "bush meat". The disease existed in Africa for many years before it spread to the West, and was transmitted largely by heterosexual sex.

Before that, the disease had existed in primates, and been spread both by sexual contact and by cannibalism (even the higher primates, like chimpanzees, eat each other occasionally).

If you look at how this virus spreads, and the mechanics of transmission from the bodily fluids of one person to another, then it seems clear that the risk is significantly greater for any activity where skin or membranes may be damaged. That alone explains why the disease spread rapidly amongst those who partake in unprotected anal sex (of whatever sexual preference).

It's just misfortune that this virus escaped from the primate population to the human population, and a greater misfortune that the way it is spread happens to make those who engage in anal sex at much greater risk.

In many ways, there is a similarity between the way HIV has spread and the way other bodily fluid borne diseases, like Ebola and the other haemorrhagic viruses, have spread. Haemorrhagic viruses also spread by transfer of bodily fluids from one individual to another, and also originally came from primates, transferring to human hosts in much the same way as HIV did.

No blame can be attached to the gay community for this disease - if someone is daft enough to want to attribute blame, then arguably it should be directed at the custom of eating bush meat.................
VP959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 09:36   #91 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 65
Posts: 55
That was pretty much the explanation of the spread by my doctor friend. It's blood where the easiest transfer occurs, hence anal sex being the popular route. I think that Mr.Mungo just hates gays.

On the 2% figure for gays in the general community, I guess this might be correct if we regard it as exclusively gay and out. But the figure overall would be I guess much higher, maybe 5% if we include those who are not out and those Bis whose first preference would be men.
Effluent Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 09:40   #92 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 65
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
No blame can be attached to the gay community for this disease - if someone is daft enough to want to attribute blame, then arguably it should be directed at the custom of eating bush meat.................
The consumption of bush meat is a perfectly understandable practice to ensure survival and those doing so would have had no idea they were taking any risks.

Continuing to engage in risky behaviour and practices, well after the dangers had been given saturation coverage in the media, carries with it a large measure of culpability.
sitigeltfel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 10:47   #93 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Age: 41
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
However, when it comes to State occasions, which are one off events, the BBC has long had the capacity to ensure every minute detail is covered, usually with a great dollop of fawning adulation, plus dredging up every "Royhalty Hexpart" from wherever they hibernate between such events.
Can't speak for you, but I'm grown up enough to either watch something else or do something else. Same applies to the LGBT season - thus far I have incredibly managed not to watch one single second of it. God knows how I have managed to cope taking such responsibility for my actions.
eal401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 10:51   #94 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,690
To be honest I can't remember the last time I watched anything on the BBC. I watch the news and sports on Sky and otherwise am likely to browse the Discovery and History channels or Dave/SyFy.

Nothing ideological about it, I listen to R4/R5L, I just never see anything worth watching.
ORAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 10:56   #95 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post

I don't like racism, extreme right wing ideologies, homophobia. hurting / killing animals for "sport", discrimination against and ridicule of women or anybody who suffers from any form of impairment.

In summary, I'm not one of the BOFSAT's who inhabit this......website.
Was that a Freudian slip there?
Harley Quinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 11:12   #96 (permalink)
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
Was that a Freudian slip there?
In what way can me categorically saying I don't like people who discriminate against, and ridicule, women and people who are impaired be classed as "Freudian slip " ?.....perhaps it would have been simpler if I said I don't like repugnant examples of humanity.

" Can't speak for you, but I'm grown up enough to either watch something else or do something else. Same applies to the LGBT season - thus far I have incredibly managed not to watch one single second of it. God knows how I have managed to cope taking such responsibility for my actions

Thank you,

You may be concerned to learn I can not only think for myself, I can speak for myself as well. This combination isn't always appreciated however. Usually by those who feel they have an over inflated sense of " self-importance " in this world.

However, it's a shame you couldn't find the time to even watch one, or two, items that were aired. I suppose education and enlightenment may not hold any appeal to you.
Krystal n chips is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 11:20   #97 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 780
Effluent Man

Quote:
I think that Mr.Mungo just hates gays.
No.. I've met a number of homosexual men (and one lesbian couple) who were in committed loving long term partnerships, mostly through having relatives and friends in the art world. I had only sympathy for the fact they were condemned to feeling outsiders. They lived quiet lives didn't feel the need to wave rainbow flags parading down the street. They move through their lives and all of them had a wide circle of friends among the straight community. They brought no harm to anyone.
On the other hand there are the sexually rampant disease spreaders spending much of their lives touring gay bars where they only have to catch someones eye across the room and five minutes later be banging away in the toilets indulging their need for unprotected sex. On a TV interview I saw while living in the States each interviewee admitted to having experienced between one and two thousand 'lovers' .. not difficult to imagine over a ten year period. If anyone in the heterosexual community behaved that way we'd have nothing but disgust and contempt for them.
They are mostly responsible for the huge waste in money and brains that have gone into combating the spread of AIDS.. money and talent that could have been put to much better causes. And still it goes on.
MungoP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 11:24   #98 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 69
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
Can't speak for you, but I'm grown up enough to either watch something else or do something else. Same applies to the LGBT season - thus far I have incredibly managed not to watch one single second of it. God knows how I have managed to cope taking such responsibility for my actions.
Mrs C and I likewise.
We're watching the athletics on BBC 1/2 though and get annoyed that between programmes, we're constantly reminded that 'Queer Britain' will be on later.
OK we recognise that homosexuals exist, but is that any reason to keep reminding us and rubbing it in our faces.
We'd rather watch 'Colonel March of the Department of Queer Complaints' on 'Talking Movies' (Freeview 81).
chevvron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 19:21   #99 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kristiansand
Posts: 23
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise - Voltaire.
annakm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Aug 2017, 19:31   #100 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: YMML
Posts: 1,533
Mungo, I'd hazard a guess that most gays are no more or less promiscuous than heterosexuals. Stop judging a whole groups by those at the extremes. How many heterosexuals have unprotected sex knowing they could be exposed to all manner of diseases, including HIV? Plenty.

How much money and brains have gone in to treating diseases of the affluent West? Heart disease, stroke, diabetes. A shed load more than on HIV.
le Pingouin is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:31.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1