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No new Diesel or Petrol cars after 2040 in UK

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No new Diesel or Petrol cars after 2040 in UK

Old 26th Jul 2017, 21:15
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by UL730 View Post
So I now have to purchase a diesel generator to charge my electric car?
As this may have been tongue-in-cheek, or sarcastic, my bet is that if the law comes to pass, there will be literally thousands of people who do exactly this. A small diesel genset and fuel cans in the trunk(or boot, as it were). Pull over, open the trunk, fire up the gen and play angry birds for an hour.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 21:16
  #82 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Windy Militant View Post
catalised the resultant exhaust is Nitrogen and Water so no carbon, NO or NO₂ emissions.
But NOx emissions are what is killing the Diesel engine:-
The European Environment Agency found that nitrogen dioxide (NO2) from diesel fumes had caused around 71,000 premature deaths across the continent in a single year.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 22:18
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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But Nix emissions are what is killing the Diesel engine:-
Maybe like the vertically challenged horse breeder with a lisp who asked to see the horse twot, I should have phrased that differently.

The Only emissions are Nitrogen and H₂O
So it is completely clean no Oxides and no Particulates.
(OK in the IC engine there might be a bit of lubricating oil burned during combustion but nothing from the fuel)
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 23:17
  #84 (permalink)  

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A small diesel genset and fuel cans in the trunk(or boot, as it were). Pull over, open the trunk, fire up the gen and play angry birds for an hour.
That would be some generator to give you any meaningful charge in an hour.

My 32A (roughly 7.5 kW) socket outlet charges the batteries overnight at the rate of 22 mph.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 01:26
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 02:06
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Can you possibly imagine the US Government doing this?
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 03:05
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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No! But, being government, its possible. Let's see if I have this correct. The EU governments used everything in their power (tax incentives, regulations) to cause 1/3 of EU cars being diesel. Now, these every same cars are killing European residents. And so many here trust government why?

Streetwise Professor Europe Has Always Been at War With the Diesel Engine!

GF
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 03:37
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile VW and maybe Audi and who knows who else were working against the regulations and the spirit of the regulations. I cannot believe the governments or some members of government had no knowledge of this. I think VW by their criminal actions has killed diesel in cars.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 04:13
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Can you possibly imagine the US Government doing this?
About 6 years ago I could NEVER believe the US govt would be able to force a citizen to purchase insurance, just because they are alive. Much less have the supremes certify it as legal. Yet - here we are.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 04:49
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'....."

Ronald Reagan
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 06:21
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Why do I get the feeling that this hasn't been properly thought through and is therefore nothing more than political grand-standing?

Surely the way ahead is for the motor manufacturers to continue to improve the power output, economy and cleanliness of the internal combustion engine whether petrol or diesel?

Hybrids by all means but until the time I can drive an all-electric vehicle from Land's End to John O'Groats without having to spend hours hooked up to charging points along the way I won't be buying one.

And, where IS all the electricity generating capacity going to come from?

It's probably not going to bother me anyway.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 06:47
  #92 (permalink)  
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I have had a hybrid on and off for the last few years. Compared to the most recent Prius, my new turbo diesel actually delivers a better MPG on a long run and feels far more crashworthy. Looking at the NCAP ratings, the Volvo exceeds the hybrid by over 5% when it comes to driver and passenger safety. I will be driving about 500 miles in one stint shortly and a pure electric car would just not hack it.


Why do I get the feeling that this hasn't been properly thought through

Because it was said by a politician ?
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:01
  #93 (permalink)  

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I will be driving about 500 miles in one stint shortly and a pure electric car would just not hack it.
I hope that day never comes because driving for that length of time without sensible breaks for the average driver is unsafe.

Even commercial drivers have to take at least 45 minutes break every 4.5 hours.

The Tesla Model S can cover 500 miles with one stop of approximately 40 minutes or less.

Besides which how often does the average person drive 500 miles in the UK?



Petrol cars are never going to catch on because I would have to stop to fill up and there are few petrol stations whereas I can carry plenty of hay for my horse to last all day.

My horse is more reliable than these new fangled and noisy engines.

My horse is quieter and much more reliable.

Horses are smaller and can fit on narrower tracks than cars.

Horse pollution can be used as fertiliser but exhaust smoke can't.

My horse doesn't run out of fuel and stop I just have to feed it at the end of each day.

Nah, not for me I am going to stick with the proven technology of my horse, you evangelists can keep your petrol cars.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:09
  #94 (permalink)  
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Bring back large boots (trunks), plug in battery packs, and roof racks.

Day to day, empty boot, lighter car, shorter range. Long journey, load roof rack, drive to service bay, hire plug in battery pack for boot, arrive destination and drop off the pack.

Or, what was advocated years ago, buy small run around (now electric) and hire large battery car for longer journeys and do a battery exchange, swap vehicles, or recharge, as required.

Taking a Leaf out if current cars, a run to our local hospital is only 30-40 miles, to our dentist 45, or to our daughter's 60. Provided we recharge there no problems.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:25
  #95 (permalink)  

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Tesla pioneered a battery swap station in 2015. A Tesla battery could be swapped in around 5 minutes at the dedicated facility. Takeup was minimal and it has probably been canned by now.

Tesla Battery swap station.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:28
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Cars have always been about choice, and frankly the government doesn't have a chance in hell of making legislation like this produce the desired effect.

Right from the invention of the wheel it has been technology that has driven the market for transport systems, of all kinds. People have made choices based on their income and person needs and desires, and I can't see that changing just because the current government have made an unenforceable and largely theoretical statement of intent.

What will happen is what we are seeing already. Car manufacturers are responding to a demand by manufacturing vehicles of many different types, and there is clearly a demand for electric vehicles (anyone who doubts that only needs to look at Tesla as an example).

Will all road vehicles be electric by, say, 2040? Who knows, that's a heck of a long time away, and there could easily be some disruptive technology that comes along and stirs things up. Look at hybrids, for example. Toyota took a colossal risk in the 1990's by chucking so much money into their "millenium project". They faced a barrage of hostile criticism when the very first, JDM-only, Prius was released. A few years later the next generation Prius was European Car of the Year and was selling like hot cakes all over the globe. Did anyone predict that would happen back when the car first came out? No, it was met with near-universal disdain.

Tesla has done something as dramatic with it's all-electric cars. By creating a car with stunning performance and that can be driven for long distances with ease, they are showing that it is possible to create a new type of car that is practical for a large number of motorists.

Whether those here who are so fanatically opposed to new technology will ever be convinced that cars in 20 years time may well not have any form of internal combustion engine I doubt, there seems to be a mindset amongst some here that mirrors that which led to the Locomotive Act 1865, that required a man waving a flag to walk in front of a vehicle not powered by a horse, and for that vehicle to have a crew of at least three......
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:39
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder what the range is when you're stuck in a traffic jam for several hours in summer with air conditioning going, or in winter in a snow storm with the OAT below zero and the heater going overnight....
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:47
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Why do people think that 2040 is a heck of a long time away? Racing into 74, and looking back (not too often!), it's no more than a double click to me. I fully intend to be around, recent CT scan permitting
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:48
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
I wonder what the range is when you're stuck in a traffic jam for several hours in summer with air conditioning going, or in winter in a snow storm with the OAT below zero and the heater going overnight....
Depends how technology develops between now and 2040. Bear in mind that the government plan that is the subject of this thread does not exclude hybrids, and my current plug-in hybrid does well over 1000 miles on 40 litres of fuel, even when the weather is really cold (and cold weather is a far bigger hit on energy consumption than hot weather).

The electric air con in my car knocks about 6% off the all-electric range in theory (i.e. that's what the range display shows). In practice I've never seen it reduce the range by more than around 2 to 3%, and often there seems to be no range reduction that I can detect; there are just too many other factors that impact on energy consumption.

This isn't surprising, as running flat out the air con uses around 600W and averages around 200W when switched on and cycling, which, given that the car averages around 6kW when driving, makes the air con load pretty small.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:52
  #100 (permalink)  

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I wonder what the range is when you're stuck in a traffic jam for several hours in summer with air conditioning going, or in winter in a snow storm with the OAT below zero and the heater going overnight....
Stop/start traffic consumes more energy than slowly moving traffic.

The Tesla Model S weighs just over 2 tonnes. Consider the energy required to move that mass. Now consider air conditioning/heater/wipers. The energy required for each of those pieces of equipment is relatively small when you loook at the overall energy requirement.

Play with Tesla's interactive calculator by scrolling down on this page.

I believe Norway, not the warmest of countries, has a very high number of electric vehicles.
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