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London Bridge incident?

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London Bridge incident?

Old 12th Jun 2017, 16:37
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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Short gun story:

Whilst working in Caldwell, I was invited by the guy I shared the office with to go hunting (state pastime in Idaho, when they aren't growing potatoes............). The AR15 had been propped up behind the office door, and he handed it to me and asked if I knew how to use it. I said yes, based on being familiar with our SA80 L85A2, same calibre, but crappier than the AR15.

The guy had a light A/C at the airfield, and said we'd fly out north and see what we could find. When I got to the airfield on the Saturday morning, I found him taking the doors off the A/C. He calmly announced that we'd better keep quiet about what we were up to, whilst sticking the guns and ammunition behind the seats.

What I hadn't realised was that his hunting technique was to fly very low over the desert brush, to flush coyotes out, then try and shoot them out of the open doors. Absolutely unbelievable, especially when I was flying and he decided to have a go with the Desert Eagle. The sound of a 0.50 calibre hand gun firing inside the cockpit was just unforgettable.

Needless to say, no coyotes were harmed, but we did have a helluva time.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 16:46
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry....the joke is lost on me. Take it, it was supposed to be a joke??
Being as how you live in a "free" country by your own account......you are free to take that comment absolutely however you desire!
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 18:20
  #463 (permalink)  
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There was mention earlier that UK citizens could use reasonable force when threatened in their home but not against an intruder running away, ie wallop them with a cricket bat as they fled.

This is no different from RoE for armed guards and no doubt similar rules apply to the police. There are caveats but I won't go into them.

Had I a gun in my home I could shoot someone in the chest but not the back. In the former it would still be necessary to prove that I or my families lives were threatened.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 18:38
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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My observations in red
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Rail Engineer,

I submit you need to broaden your choice of sources of historical facts.

Yes, we were isolationist....we remembered the slaughter that attended the not so old World War we got dragged into. I never said you weren't. I was responding to the post that suggested the opposite

We also understood the reasons the Germans thought they had not been defeated militarily and the hatred the terms of the Versailles Treaty imposed on Germany. Not a point I made

Yet, if you read a proper account you will learn of the measures the President took to ensure your survival until he could bring our military on to a reasonable war footing. Agree on that but against the Law at that time and very much against the wishes of the general population and Political elite
Originally Posted by SASless View Post

We escorted convoys and lost destroyers and crews in the process, provided you armaments, food, petroleum, even stripping our front line units of new tanks. In context please ONLY after Hitler declared War on the US.


As soon as Germany declared war on the United States (Dec. 12, 1941), U-Boats headed for the U.S. Atlantic seaboard. The period from January to May 1942 was known as the "Happy Time" because Fleet Admiral Ernest J. King did not arm the ships, nor provide escorts or air cover, nor organize convoys along the Atlantic or Gulf Coasts or in the Caribbean.

The U.S. Government did not order a blackout of seacoast cities until June 1942, leaving ships silhouetted against the shoreline. Allied ships were "sitting ducks" for the well-armed U-Boats lurking in U.S. coastal waters. U.S. beaches soon became littered with bodies and burned-out ships.

We had Men serve in Commonwealth and British forces prior to entry into the War. Never disputed that, indeed I did recognise that fact.

We were not neutral ever despite our National laws that required us to be so.

We were attacked by the Japanese....and we declared war against them....and not the Germans.

Hitler declared War on us....and that just like the First War dragged us into yet another European War. Which proves the point I was making - the US was not interested in becoming involved. I never argued differently simply asking not to revise history to suggest the US was there ready to go.

We fought the war, kept you fed and equipped and after the War kept you fed. Yes because you charged the UK every more increasing amounts for the munitions, ships, etc you supplied. Just look at how wages rocketed in the US in that time and how rich the US became

Don't feed us that same old tired bullshit about our contribution to the Second World War! Simply facts, old chap. Sorry they don't suit.

Take a trip to Duxford and walk up the hill to the entrance and perhaps to Cambridge and count the Crosses....then perhaps you will understand the fallacies of what you posted! An inappropriate comment. The memory of those who gave is not helped by US revisionists
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 18:39
  #465 (permalink)  
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On ID cards.

Just about everywhere you will find folks with ID cards around their necks from care home workers to council officials.

As an invigilator I am supposed to show my ID but I think the exam paper in my hand is sufficient. On the other hand the student is required to present a photo ID with signature. A passport or driving licence is acceptable but someone without my buy an ID. Oddly a forces ID is not acceptable except on a unit overseas.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 18:49
  #466 (permalink)  
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On guns, there is only one place where a firearm is useful - in your hand. In your office drawer or at home or in your car only works if you have time and space to assess the threat.

Mall car parking lot, dozens of people around, perp taps your window -game, set and match.

In your office, peaceful prep pulls gun - game, set and match.

At home, late in day, knock on door (Florida I believe), answer with 4x.44 - buy new door, get undertaker to remove bodies, convince jury self-defence.

Lose,lose,lose

Can our cousins give us examples of where gun ownership successfully countered gunman? I accept guns might have acted as a deterrent.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 18:52
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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My comments in red
[QUOTE=HEMS driver;9799626]I would call what you penned - revisionist history. We in fact did little in the Pacific initially, and focused on Europe. And we had the resources and men to go fight in the Pacific ???

I have read more than one history book about WWII (more than 50), and even have a friend who was on FDR's, and later Truman's, military staff in the White House, throughout the war. Makes your comments even more bizarre then.

You need to take History 101, and quit watching movies. Really ? Never watched U571 but presumably it is now putting the US at the heart of decrypting Enigma ???

1,000s of American merchant mariners risked their lives, and many were killed, to keep your ancestors fed, and your soldiers armed, throughout WWII. It is sad that you refuse to recognize that. A disingenuous comment showing you have not read my post properly. If you know so much US history from those whom you say you knew then you would know that for example inaction in the US killed a considerable number of their own citizens after the US Government refused to implement a blackout on the Eastern seaboard resulting in ships being highlighted against the lights of the cities, and thus being sunk like shooting fish in a barrel. You should also know that the U.S. did not arm the ships, nor provide escorts or air cover, nor organize convoys along the Atlantic or Gulf Coasts or in the Caribbean. from Hitler's declaration of war in December 1941 until May 1942 [/QUOTE]
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 19:24
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
They provided massive help and American lives to defeat Germany during the First World​ War only to see Europe screw up and start it all over again!
There is that, that's a good point. You can read Testament of Youth/Experience (written by Shirley Williams' mum - met Shirley just last week actually) and wonder how the f**k they managed to screw up so badly. (Answer, of course, was that the EU wasn't invented until after the second war, which was a bit late.)


You can actually understand why, the second time around, Americans just sat there selling to both sides until they'd worked out who was going to win. I'm not entirely sure I wouldn't have done the same.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 20:59
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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Rail Engineer - I don't know what you have been smoking, but it is probably illegal. Your revisionist view of history is very inaccurate, distorted, and full of rubbish.

Apparently WWII movies are your source of history. Mine is from people who were there, including my late father.

Go away. You are becoming a troll.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 21:07
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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RailEng.....Rule one of extricating oneself from a self dug hole.....is quit digging.

Using your Belly Button for a Peephole is not going to give you much of a view on this.

Had we not violated our own Neutrality Act, not done the Lend-Lease and Give Away Programs, not have given you Fifty Destroyers, and a few other odd things....you reckon you would have survived post Dunkirk?

You remember how small our Military was prior to WWII....and how late it was before we began to re-arm?

By your own Admission.....it was not until December 1941 we got dragged into the War by the attack on Pearl Harbor.

It took Hitler declaring War on us before we entered the Second European War.

Get over Old Man.....your version of history is pure Bollocks!

Perhaps you might take about three minutes to read this synopsis of those years and happenings. Pay attention where US Law enacted by Congress forbade the US Government from selling Arms to Nations by extending Credit, that had not paid off their WWI Debts to the United States....including Great Britain.

In 1940....you lot were skint....thus Roosevelt came up with Lend Lease to be able to continue sending you arms and supplies.


https://history.state.gov/milestones...945/lend-lease

http://www.rialto.k12.ca.us/rhs/plan...II/CHURCH5.PDF

Last edited by SASless; 12th Jun 2017 at 21:19.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 21:37
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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planemike,

How did so many Muslims find their way to citizenship in the U.K. Yes, I know about Mountbatten, Partition, etc but that didn't give them citizenship, did it?

I fear for the future, their birth rates far exceed British and every European rates, the demographics are not favorable. The clash could be every bit as bad as WW II, if Europeans feel an existential threat from Islam.

GF
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 21:49
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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Well they are going the appeasement route already aren't they?
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 21:59
  #473 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
planemike,

How did so many Muslims find their way to citizenship in the U.K. Yes, I know about Mountbatten, Partition, etc but that didn't give them citizenship, did it?

I fear for the future, their birth rates far exceed British and every European rates, the demographics are not favorable. The clash could be every bit as bad as WW II, if Europeans feel an existential threat from Islam.

GF
Good point - one of the elephants in the room.

To talk about it is likely to raise accusations of racism, yet any can see exactly what you suggest.

I started my working life in Luton, where there are now significant non-white ghettos, together with 'radical' movements and opposition groups intent on confrontation.



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Old 12th Jun 2017, 22:02
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
planemike, How did so many Muslims find their way to citizenship in the U.K. Yes, I know about Mountbatten, Partition, etc but that didn't give them citizenship, did it?
I fear for the future, their birth rates far exceed British and every European rates, the demographics are not favorable. The clash could be every bit as bad as WW II, if Europeans feel an existential threat from Islam.
GF
I do not share your pessimism. Yes, we do have a serious problem with some murderous thugs who have perverted a religion so that they can try to justify their evil.

We are where we are, we cannot turn the clock back. "The clash could be every bit as bad as WW II," this just patently is not true. In WWII we faced to the massed organised industrial might of a major European country that had occupied much of Europe. Japan was also industrially organised and possessed military might. Now as I say above we are facing a bunch of murderous thugs. Yes, of course they can pull off outrages that cause death and injury but a sustained military onslaught such as Britain endured during the "blitz". No, definitely not.

We have to fight back using out freedom, democracy and open society. We will only fail if we allow these thugs to divide us and end up giving up our values. We need to show these thugs up as the criminal, no-hopers and loosers that they plainly are. Many of these so called terrorists are not more than petty criminal who have been seduced into thinking they can achieve some thing by picking up a knife or strapping a suicide vest to themselves.

"How did so many Muslims find their way to citizenship in the U.K. " Should just point out, this is not a uniquely British situation. Muslims are citizens of many European countries and also the US>

Last edited by Planemike; 12th Jun 2017 at 22:16.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 22:37
  #475 (permalink)  
 
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One in three Muslims is under 15, compared with fewer than one in five overall. There are also fewer elderly Muslims, with 4% aged over 65, compared with 16% of the overall population.

In 2011, 2.71 million Muslims lived in England and Wales, compared with 1.55 million in 2001. There were also 77,000 Muslims in Scotland and 3,800 in Northern Ireland.

The Muslim Council of Britain’s (MCB) study of data from the 2011 census found that Muslims are still a small minority of the overall population – one in 20.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 04:04
  #476 (permalink)  
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For those who are so passionate about carrying weapons....

Note the advice, and stance, from the professionals here.....the UK police.

Devon and Cornwall police chief in armed civilians row - BBC News
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 06:54
  #477 (permalink)  
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Strangely enough a couple were arrested yesterday on a charge of murder for shooting dead a suspected burglar.

The circumstances were unusual to say the least but it shows the limits to which we are allowed to defend ourselves. If I happen to skewer a burglar with a snooker cue or a sword I will automatically be arrested and possibly imprisoned despite the burglar committing an illegal act.

I would also expect to be sued by the burglar for injury or trauma if he survived or his family if he died.

"Caring family man, first offence, totally out of character . . . "
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 07:08
  #478 (permalink)  
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Another problem is their attitude to women and marriage. Sons are preferred which leads to a mismatch in sexes. Muslim women are strictly controlled whereas white women are seen as promiscuous and available.

When they marry it is usually an arranged marriage and frequently to a bride from Pakistan who often does not speak English and fails to integrate as she has nothing in common with the natives here.

Years ago my wife was friendly with a Glaswegian Muslim. She could not come in our house as we had dogs nor come around if i was at home. Even so her husband, a mukta, from Pakistan objected.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 11:15
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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The important bit in that article that KnC has posted is the comment from the Deputy Chief Constable at the end of that article:

"As was seen in London, we responded immediately and we don't have time to find out if you're an innocent member of the public or a terrorist.
"If you're carrying a gun we will deal with you and deal with you immediately."

We have seen how conclusively the professional armed police dealt with suspects in London. Not a good idea to try to be an amateur have-a-go-hero!!


The point that Pontius makes is very, very valid. There is absolutely no reason for foreigners not to fit in to British society and British ways of life if they want to live here. When so many are making such a fuss about some attitudes in Northern Ireland about women's rights and personal relationships, why, why, why is there not even more fuss about these alien cultures that are far, far more 'brutal' in their attitudes to exactly those same issues and even more. I feel very, very strongly that foreigners that don't want to fit in and become proper 'integrated' members of British society and culture should go back to where they came from, and fast!
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 11:57
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Austria understands the importance of assimilation.

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/aust...ration-course/

As far as citizens not being able to take up arms against terrorists - when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Best of luck with that.
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