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Very Large Ore Carrier goes missing

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Very Large Ore Carrier goes missing

Old 8th Apr 2017, 18:24
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Costa Pacifica, which was holed by a buoy

So much for improvements in steel metallurgy since Titanic then.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 18:25
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Quite simple with cruise ships. Open the cocks and take on water thus lowering the height above water to about half. This will provide much greater stability in seas and guard against the possibility of overturning.

Of course some occupants will have to be re-cabined but the cruise industry has an established response by providing half-off fares to any passenger so diasdvantage that survives
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 18:48
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Contrary to popular belief ships doesn't have "cocks" open to the sea.
If we want to stabilise the vessel we use ballast.
Per
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:27
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
So much for improvements in steel metallurgy since Titanic then.
Can opener job...


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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:35
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This was the ocean liner Michelangelo after she was hit by a rogue wave mid Atlantic in 1966

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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:36
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Isn't that the Thomson Dream in #64 (nee. Homeric/Costa Europa) Sharm incident?

Great ship. It feels like a ship. The Royal floating apartment blocks feel exactly like that.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:43
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Originally Posted by mockingjay View Post
Isn't that the Thomson Dream in #64 (nee. Homeric/Costa Europa) Sharm incident?

Great ship. It feels like a ship. The Royal floating apartment blocks feel exactly like that.

No...That is Costa Pacifica, Marseille in 2012...I was on board when an outer marker buoy broke loose and attacked us

The same day a RoRo ferry was also severely damaged in Marseille, Napoleon Bonaparte

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Old 8th Apr 2017, 19:45
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This is the Europa at Sharm when she hit the quay and 4 crew were killed

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Old 9th Apr 2017, 05:44
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I'm just waiting for the first major disaster on one of those floating city blocks.
They've already had it, and got away very lightly (no disrespect to the 33 victims intended).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 06:08
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
They've already had it, and got away very lightly (no disrespect to the 33 victims intended).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster
I was aboard her the week prior to her accident and when aboard her twin sister later in the year I met up with several survivors from that night....just so happened that as we entered Marseilles aboard Pacifica the buoy hit us when the chains holding it snapped (see pics above)

It was a very emotional cruise aboard Pacifica with the survivors of Concordia, as we left Civitavechia and passed where Concordia was on her side, everyone was invited to the stern of Pacifica and we were given red & white roses to drop over the side and the ship's Chaplain said a few words of prayer

I had booked the Pacifica before Concordia was lost, it was co-incidental that the cruise I took was the one that also had many of the Concordia survivors aboard, they had been specially invited as a way to pay their respects

Concordia & Pacifica were identical ships which made things quite difficult for the survivors, I spoke with several of them including a young couple who I knew from previous cruises........very very emotional reunion
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 09:24
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Everything to do with the passenger to technical crew ratio
Who tramples over who.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 12:42
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Originally Posted by Blacksheep View Post
Sailors have known of "rogue waves" for centuries. During one of the Russian convoys (JW53 Feb 1943) a rogue wave ripped the top off the forward gun turret of the cruiser HMS Sheffield. It was said that without the protection of the two forward turrets, the whole forward upper-works would have been torn off and the ship sent to the bottom - bear in mind that Sheffield had an armoured hull and deck.
In the Alister McClean novel HMS Ulysses, a converted aircraft carrier had the flight deck ripped partially off by such a wave.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 13:39
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So the life of one these large ships could be determined by corrosion or metal fatigue from the bending or, I suppose, both together with the corrosion exacerbating the effects of metal fatigue? Plus they obviously don't get quite the routine maintenance of aircraft fuselages...
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 14:54
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The comparison with aircraft maintenance is an interesting one. I can well remember the ground crew reading the fatigue g meters shortly after we'd landed, especially on the old girl that's my username here, where her fatigue life was almost used up, and was further exacerbated by a high fatigue index being applied because of the type of operation (low level over the sea much of the time).

Do big ships have similar fatigue life monitoring systems? Having watched the video posted earlier, showing the deformation of the hull in rough seas, I'd assume they must, but structural failure seems to occur fairly regularly, which seems to suggest that fatigue monitoring may not be as effective as it is for aircraft structures.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 15:21
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The comparison with aircraft maintenance is an interesting one. I can well remember the ground crew reading the fatigue g meters shortly after we'd landed, especially on the old girl that's my username here, where her fatigue life was almost used up, and was further exacerbated by a high fatigue index being applied because of the type of operation (low level over the sea much of the time).

Do big ships have similar fatigue life monitoring systems? Having watched the video posted earlier, showing the deformation of the hull in rough seas, I'd assume they must, but structural failure seems to occur fairly regularly, which seems to suggest that fatigue monitoring may not be as effective as it is for aircraft structures.
Not certain on drydocking schedules for freighters and tankers etc but this gives an idea of what cruise ships have done to them

They are also inspected annually by representatives of their flag nation and insurer

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-fe...refurbishments

Any mechanical or structural issues tween the drydock/refurb dates are usually carried out at scheduled dates unless damage is deemed urgent or life threatening
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 15:31
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What I was wondering was if there was some sort of built-in stress monitoring. Even pretty old A/C had totalising G meters in the fuselage, attached to the main spar. These were read after every landing, before the aircraft was turned around, and the remaining fatigue life calculated from the readings and the fatigue index for the type of operation (essentially a multiplier applied to the hours flown).

As a consequence, the remaining (predicted) fatigue life, in flying hours, was always known. Something like this for big ships would seem to be easy enough to install, as earlier in this thread one of our professional mariners mentioned reading hull stress indicators from the bridge, which implies that the sensors are already there.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 15:39
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If ship's owners were interested in fitting stress or fatigue meters to their ships they wouldn't need a Plimsoll Line.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 15:48
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
If ship's owners were interested in fitting stress or fatigue meters to their ships they wouldn't need a Plimsoll Line.
It was this post by Ancient Mariner that got me thinking, where he mentions reading the hull stress indicators on the bridge of a 1980's built ship:
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/5930...ml#post9727861
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 15:59
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Gnoogle VDR, Voyage Data Recorder or S-VDR, a simplified version.
Like a flight data recorder meant to store last 24/48 hours of data (can't remember). I think hull stress is one parameter. I'm sure they can store the data on a separate memory if they want to.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 16:13
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Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
Gnoogle VDR, Voyage Data Recorder or S-VDR, a simplified version.
Like a flight data recorder meant to store last 24/48 hours of data (can't remember). I think hull stress is one parameter. I'm sure they can store the data on a separate memory if they want to.
Per
Thanks, that makes sense. A quick look at the Wikipedia entry suggests that a VDR is similar to a flight data recorder, and doesn't record long-term hull fatigue.

With A/C, the stresses the airframe has been exposed to on every flight are logged, so at any time there is a ground record of the remaining airframe fatigue life (with the exception of some over-engineered A/C, like the DC3/C47, that, to all intents and purposes have an "infinite" fatigue life). As there are already hull stress indicators, I'd have thought that logging that data over the life of the vessel would be useful in predicting when the hull reaches the end of its safe life.
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