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Very Large Ore Carrier goes missing

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Very Large Ore Carrier goes missing

Old 4th Apr 2017, 05:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blacksheep View Post
Sailors have known of "rogue waves" for centuries. During one of the Russian convoys (JW53 Feb 1943) a rogue wave ripped the top off the forward gun turret of the cruiser HMS Sheffield. It was said that without the protection of the two forward turrets, the whole forward upper-works would have been torn off and the ship sent to the bottom - bear in mind that Sheffield had an armoured hull and deck.
True.
But Draupner was the first undeniable evidence - until then it was damage, eyewitness reports and sailor's tales...
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 14:57
  #22 (permalink)  
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One imagines that tearing the top off a heavily armoured gun turret that was a clear fifty feet above the water line - combined with the state of the Captain's underpants - should have been pretty good evidence.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 15:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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One wonders what mayhem could come from hijacking and driving a loaded Bulk Carrier into a harbour to block the entrance. Might also be capable of driving into/through a drilling rig without too much trouble. Suez? Panama canal? Park it somewhere awkward and then blow the keel out of it?
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 15:43
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Originally Posted by blue up View Post
One wonders what mayhem could come from hijacking and driving a loaded Bulk Carrier into a harbour to block the entrance. Might also be capable of driving into/through a drilling rig without too much trouble. Suez? Panama canal? Park it somewhere awkward and then blow the keel out of it?
One really hopes this is much harder than it sounds.

On the other hand, these things aren't exactly nimble, so what could be done if a rogue crew decided to use one as a weapon of mass destruction or mass inconvenience?
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 16:26
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My company has been appointed by one of the parties involved to investigate this sinking. Wont be me (I do oil gas & chemicals) - it will be one of my Iron Ore specialist colleagues.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 16:49
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One of my jobs lead me to spending a lot of time in Bermuda-a ship registry location and lots of insurance business. One day a big tanker came close to getting wrecked on the reef and talking with marine insurance guy I said I wouldn't fancy being crew on a tanker. he laughed and said they are no problem at all but never ever go anywhere near a bulk carrier because if something goes wrong the ship goes down in seconds.
As to the rogue waves, spend a winter on 'de rock' as Bermuda is called locally and watch the breakers hitting the reef on the north shore ten miles away where you can see a clear elevated line of white as the waves break -go out there and you can see they are 30-40 feet high as the northerly 25Kt wind pushes the seas relentless onward. Learn to respect the ocean really quickly living there even if you dont go out on it which no one does in the winter months if they have any sense or are very very experienced and on a big ship.

In my time there were several smallish disasters including a replica man of war from the sailing days which was just laid down flat in a squall, water don the hates and shes gone in the blink of an eye. The tanker I mentioned foundered upright on the ref and withing four hours she was on her side with huge holes torn in the plating from the giant waves scary stuff even from several miles away to see just what the ocean in a bad mood can do
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 17:43
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Pax Britannica-
there were several smallish disasters including a replica man of war from the sailing days which was just laid down flat in a squall, water don the hates and shes gone in the blink of an eye
This one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_(1960_ship)
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 18:07
  #28 (permalink)  
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40 years ago I used to visit the repair dock in Capetown and often used to see tankers and other ships with holes in the forward part of the hull big enough to drive a double deck bus through.

It was often said that they had encountered a long period compression wave which would literally stove in the bow for several bulkheads.

Frightening to think that they are still out there and driving ships to the bottom.

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Old 4th Apr 2017, 18:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ImageGear View Post
40 years ago I used to visit the repair dock in Capetown and often used to see tankers and other ships with holes in the forward part of the hull big enough to drive a double deck bus through.

It was often said that they had encountered a long period compression wave which would literally stove in the bow for several bulkheads.

Frightening to think that they are still out there and driving ships to the bottom.

Imagegear
Had one smash in the bottom of a RoRo-ship I was on. Funny feeling when I was dipping the 170 cm deep bottom tank and it only went in 50 cm.
The first quarter of the ship was lifted out of the water, and we met a new wave on the way down.
Floating dock in Setubal. Cut out the crumbled bottom, re-floated on the tank top, new section made, back in dock, positioned over new section, dock emptied, new section welded in.
Problem solved.
Per
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 20:05
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
One of my jobs lead me to spending a lot of time in Bermuda-a ship registry location and lots of insurance business. One day a big tanker came close to getting wrecked on the reef and talking with marine insurance guy I said I wouldn't fancy being crew on a tanker. he laughed and said they are no problem at all but never ever go anywhere near a bulk carrier because if something goes wrong the ship goes down in seconds.
As to the rogue waves, spend a winter on 'de rock' as Bermuda is called locally and watch the breakers hitting the reef on the north shore ten miles away where you can see a clear elevated line of white as the waves break -go out there and you can see they are 30-40 feet high as the northerly 25Kt wind pushes the seas relentless onward. Learn to respect the ocean really quickly living there even if you dont go out on it which no one does in the winter months if they have any sense or are very very experienced and on a big ship.

In my time there were several smallish disasters including a replica man of war from the sailing days which was just laid down flat in a squall, water don the hates and shes gone in the blink of an eye. The tanker I mentioned foundered upright on the ref and withing four hours she was on her side with huge holes torn in the plating from the giant waves scary stuff even from several miles away to see just what the ocean in a bad mood can do
Ships do flex in a seaway, if you stand on the bridge of a large ship in a moderate sea, you can watch the bow flexing, rising and falling, as the ship moves. Bulkies are a series of boxes with lids on, lined up, with a sharp end at one end and an accommodation block at the other. As has been mentioned, a dense heavy cargo like iron ore exacerbates the stresses on the hull which can lead to shearing stresses at bulkheads much the same way as a yorkie bar breaks at the divisions. On a positive note, tankers are actually quite hard to sink as they are made up of separate tanks giving an overall pocket effect. Several pockets have to be broken before buoyancy is lost. This was the case with a ship called the Ohio during the Malta convoys. It was bombed, abandoned and reboarded then still made it to Malta. As for the crew of this latest ship, my thoughts are with them and their families.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 20:34
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Bring back the Whaleback

Futuristic Whaleback Ships Once Plied the Great Lakes

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Old 4th Apr 2017, 20:44
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst I was flying out of China I would see massive container ships plying the route from Japan to Singapore and places further west. They had at least four tiers of containers above main deck level and probably six layers below. There were so many that it was difficult to count just the top level in the time available flying over them.

I was told that the containers are slid into rails and then they are a part of the ship's integrity. They must always have containers on board, full or empty, otherwise that hull would just collapse in any sort of sea.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 01:18
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Good clip of flex involved.

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Old 5th Apr 2017, 01:36
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brian Abraham View Post
Good clip of flex involved.
Looks like a Diesel 8, really.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 02:18
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Rogue waves and hull flex? Media suggested that liquefaction of the iron ore was a likely cause 2 or 3 days ago.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 04:42
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like a Diesel 8, really
Always wondered about those long tubes. I guess you find out in a rapid flare, the back end does, the front doesn't.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 07:58
  #37 (permalink)  
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...and you can see they are 30-40 feet high as the northerly 25Kt wind pushes the seas relentless onward.
30 to 40 foot waves are pretty normal. It's the big ones you need to worry about. The "rogue" waves that occur when the energy in a couple of those 40 footers combine together for a really big heave.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 08:21
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I seem to remember that many years ago, the QE2 encountered such waves when on an west-east transatlantic crossing. The information only came to light because there was a 'celebrity' on board. The captain later commented that he thought the waves were about 90 feet high.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 08:33
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Megan wrote:
Always wondered about those long tubes. I guess you find out in a rapid flare, the back end does, the front doesn't.
Not quite, watch the fuselage flex in this landing -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr3r_Ue05Q8
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 05:08
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan
Oil tanker "Kirki" that lost its bow off the West Australian coast.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/environment/...irki/index.asp

Read a book many years ago about the safety aspects of VLCC, and the author (qualified Captain) was of the opinion that one of the chief problems was that the bridge crew were too far removed from what was happening at the bow, the impact the sea was having, and the stress that the ship is enduring ie you may need to slow down. The largest ULCC is 1,503 feet in length. Not helped by tight scheduling practices. Had much to say about design also ie only one engine for propulsion
What really happened.

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