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South Africa on the Brink?

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South Africa on the Brink?

Old 4th Mar 2018, 18:45
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It is confounding. They must be aware of Rhodesia's experience. (and Venezuela and a few others).
I guess they can pull it off - their tribes must be much smarter with stronger work ethics than the ones up north.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 19:26
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Judging by Mugabe's pay off you can't blame them for trying.
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Old 7th Mar 2018, 06:38
  #83 (permalink)  
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On the brin’ in more senses than one....

Chainsaw gang tries to amputate triathlete Mhlengi Gwala’s legs

An elite South African triathlete was dragged from his bicycle by three men who tried to saw off his legs with a chainsaw.

Mhlengi Gwala, 26, was on a training ride near the University of KwaZulu-Natal in Durban just after 3am yesterday when he was pulled into bushes by unknown assailants. “He tried offering them his cell phone and money, but they pinned him down and tried to saw off his leg,” his athletic sponsor Sue de la Porte said. Colleagues said the blade appeared to be too blunt and the men started on his second leg before stopping and running away.

Dennis Jackson‚ director of the Elite Athlete Development programme, of which Mr Gwala is part, said it was “bizarre”, even in the context of Durban’s high violent crime rate. “We don’t yet know how far they went in‚ whether they were trying to cut it off‚ or what the circumstances are,” he told South Africa’s Times LIVE website. “All we know is that Mhlengi is alive‚ he is talking and that he is under medical care.”

He said Gwala dragged himself out of the bush and on to the road where a private security car picked him up and took him to hospital. “What the damage to his leg is‚ we will know in the next few days I guess‚” Mr Jackson added. Ms De la Porte said she had visited Gwala in the hospital trauma unit and that he was “very badly injured” and being prepared for surgery today, amid concerns that his tendons may have been severed. He will miss the South African Triathlon Champs in Bloemfontein in two weeks’ time.

Gwala, who was born in KwaZulu-Natal and is seen by the sporting fraternity as one of the country’s most promising athletes, has represented South Africa twice in international triathlons.

South Africa has one of the world’s highest violent crime rates — with an average of 52.1 murders every day and 146.4 robberies.
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Old 21st Aug 2018, 19:59
  #84 (permalink)  
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So the land grabs have started, with the forced sale of a game ranch for a fraction of its value. Meanwhile, Ramaphosa wants to see the interpretation of the Constitution clarified to allow confiscation without compensation:
"The clarity that is sought about what the Constitution says, the implied interpretation of the Constitution, is that section 25 does not prohibit the expropriation of land without compensation and the proposal that we essentially put forward is to make that clear, explicitly clear and once that is clear, we will then be able to speed ahead with our land reform processes," said Ramaphosa.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:00
  #85 (permalink)  
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https://nationalinterest.org/feature...zimbabwe-29332

This Is How South Africa Could Become the Next Zimbabwe

On July 31, South African President Cecil Ramaphosa confirmed that his party, the African National Congress (ANC), will pass an amendmentto the South Africa Constitution allowing the seizure of white-owned farmland without compensation. Citing the "blatantly clear," demands raised during recent public hearings by his supporters, Ramaphosa says the amendment aims to clarify Section 25 of the existing constitution.

Section 25 currently mandates that if land is taken away from a property owner, ‘compensation…must be just and equitable.’ Ramaphosa claims the new amendment is designed to “outline more clearly the conditions under which expropriation of land without compensation can be affected.” In other words, the ANC is changing the ‘just and equitable’ compensation clause to mean “no compensation” is necessary—if the property is taken from white landowners. Some view this amendment as a victory, but they shouldn't. History teaches us that disregarding the property rights of an ethnic minority due to the historical grievances committed by their racial group is a terrible idea and likely to end in catastrophe.

Ramaphosa’s and the ANC’s disdain for South African whites has always been clear. On Monday, the ANC via their official Twitter, appeared to call all white South Africans “murderers.” The president once even compared the strategy of dealing with whites to that of boiling frogs; you must raise the temperature slowly, so they do not notice what is happening, for if the temperature is raised suddenly, the frog will jump out of the water. Then, by the time the frog realizes it is dying, it is too late for it to escape the pot.

Despite his prejudices, Ramaphosa was still democratically elected by the people of South Africa last February. The president insists that the amendment will “promote redress, advance economic development, increase agricultural production and food security.” In reality, South Africa is beginning to head down the same path toward social and economic disaster that its northern neighbor Zimbabwe took eighteen years ago.

In early 2000, ex-Zimbabwean dictator Robert Mugabe began chaotic land seizures of twenty-three million acres from white-owned farms. The result was threefold. Violence became common as five white farm owners and dozens more black farm workers were killed. Then, food shortages devastated the Zimbabwean people as food production in the nation that was once dubbed the “breadbasket” of Africa, fell 60 percent within ten years. And finally, the economy was ruined as the land grab induced hyperinflation that peaked in 2008. In July of that year, the daily inflation rate averaged 98 percent , effectively meaning everyday prices would almost double. In 2009, the Zimbabwean economist Eddie Cross estimated that legalizing seizures of white farmland with no compensation cost Zimbabwe more than $20 billion .

Violence against white farmers in South Africa is already increasing. Although official numbers are not available, reports from the South African Police and the Transvaal Agricultural Union (a group representing the interests of farmers) highlight an increase in the number of attacks on white farmers. Between January and March 2018, there were 109 attacks and fifteen murders on white farms, meaning that one white farmer was killed every five days..........


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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 12:38
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Zimbabwean friend has indicated that SA Govt really isn't thinking this through very much.................. quelle surprise.

Majority of farms have debts either mortgages or working capital debts until crops comes in to pay it off.

Soon as farms start getting siezed then farmers no longer able to pay debts hence Banks start to get screwed very quickly and private property transactions
start to become worthless.

Banks will know very quickly the situation hence no new Capital or Loans in which cases farmers will not be planting.

Interesting to read that Russia which has millions of acres of underused land is encouraging Saffer Farmers to consider relocating there.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 13:01
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The first two estates to be confiscated have been hunting ones. That's a soft option because not too many people are enamoured of whacking antelopes with a .270 for sport.
Ramaphosa is in a bind with Malema chasing at his heels for the popular rabble vote in next years election. He's taking the softest option available to him and limiting the potential confiscation to estates over 10,000-12,000 hectares.
The banks will roll over and write the loans or debts off. South African banks are enormously profitable and would far rather take a hit than the potential threat of nationalisation that would be likely were Malema to win more seats in 2019.
The Arikanner race, which comprises nearly all of the individual white farming land ownership, is possessed of a certain degree of innate cunning. It would be a mistake though to underestimate the shrewdness of men like Ramaphosa who has come from being a shop floor tub thumping trouble maker to being one of the richest men in Africa in thirty years. It is likely he knows the hand he is playing.
At the moment,South Africa feeds itself and its future is no more wobbly than Britain's. Project fear should no more drive things there than in Britain. However, crime and violence, rape, murder and mayhem are different matters. With the whole of Africa pouring people down into South Africa those problems needs different solutions. The Limpopo is probably the real candidate for a thumping great border fence?
Australia is doing the same as Russia then? Fast track permanent residence for dispossessed farmers? The Congo did much the same with the Rhodesian tobacco farmers some years ago, to the profit of one and the happiness of the others.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 22nd Aug 2018 at 13:38.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:38
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Australia wants them as well, they are quite happy in regional areas which need people rather than the overcrowded cities. Expect seizures to begin around harvest time after all the work has been done and crops simply need bringing in. A decent first intake will show how big a success the program is and any problems with food production won't become apparent for at least a year as stocks will initially cover the drastic reduction in yields.

Expect 2-3 years for the wheels to really come off as the effects spread out into the wider economy and food reserves get depleted. Aid could come from Australia with crops grown by the farmers who were forced off their land and all paid for by the Americans. But that's all way too far in the future for the ANC to be worried.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 15:42
  #89 (permalink)  
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I suspect that if and when the wheels wobble a little, they'll precess first for the young white middle classes many of whom will simply decamp overseas with their vacancies being taken by young black lower classes. Their expertise will be as illuminating as the Telkom computer expert whom I found the other day simultaneously sticking hard drives into ports on either side of my laptop in order to make the downloads go faster. So yes, the chariot may crash but it'll take time and the doomsayers who've been waiting since 1994 are still waiting.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 10:11
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When I left Rhodesia in 1980, I honestly did not think it would happen here......

We'll see.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:11
  #91 (permalink)  
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If SA goes the way of all Africa before it, the resulting economic chaos will affect many African countries and will impact upon the Chinese financial presence in southern Africa as far north as Tanzania and including Mozambique. The Chinese will not allow their footholds in southern Africa to be so easily prejudiced. Before the South African economy really starts to disintegrate, look for massive low interest loans from the Chinese. They will be bail outs dressed up as loans.
South Africa, for all its poverty and societal woes is not an envy or class driven abnormality as is Britain, a country in which Marxist individuals and groups delight in stirring the pot of hatred and jealousy, grimly reminiscent of murderous regimes that have gone before. South Africa, with its policy of BEE requires the SABC to have a proportionate black/white staff ratio. No mainstream political leader in SA has yet, as Corbyn has done in Britain, stated that employment in the broadcasting industry should be predicated upon an applicant's private or public education, the amount of money their parents had or how they viewed themselves economically at the age of fourteen.
(Have the Marxists thought that through? Seamus Milne, Corbyn's Director of Communications and Strategy, went to Winchester and Oxford.)
No, I think Britain is in greater danger of a socially driven violent implosion than South Africa. In the meantime the world awaits as the London murder and knife violence rate rises to levels greater than anywhere else in the world, civilised or not.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:31
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Russia which has millions of acres of underused land is encouraging Saffer Farmers to consider relocating there
My goodness, if they need manpower there are at least a million workers camped up in Libya, Tunisia and places all eager to get north, out of Africa and work hard. And lots more available beyond that.
Not the right colour?
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:38
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More about demonstrated ability to make a viable economic and environmental success of projects involving agriculture and husbandry, surely?
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:39
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I don't think that 'manpower' is what is needed - it is people who have the ability to develop the virgin land and produce something.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 12:24
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Or you could supply the farm managers and use the manpower, thus creating a farm and gradually educating the manpower to run farms.
Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
Surely all those folks in northern Africa, waiting, more waiting, wait some more, can do farm labour? You know, Tote that bale.
These new farms would probably be way far from any Wi-Fi service tho'. Probably a non-starter then.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 13:55
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
My goodness, if they need manpower there are at least a million workers camped up in Libya, Tunisia and places all eager to get north, out of Africa and work hard. And lots more available beyond that.
Not the right colour?
19th century thinking............

Starting off with a blank sheet of paper how would you plan a farm with the internal infrastructure needed.
This includes irrigation, wiring and everything else, little labour needed.

Comments about WIFI are laughable because in the US flyover states they are managing it easily.

When farming started in South Africa it was luck and judgement that got you crops, and there was lots of it bad.

Moving into Russia they supply 100 years leases, infrastructure support and actually plan each farm depending on soil
capabilities using Agri experts.


Hell even in El Salvador they using drones to identify what parts of Sugar Cane plantation needs spraying and using drones to do it where they unable to do before.
Crop yields are projected to rise by 10%.

Best part of starting from scratch is you know everybody elses mistakes plus you can make a technological jump because you didn't invest in the infrastructure 10 years ago.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:26
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Ramaphosa’s and the ANC’s disdain for South African whites has always been clear. On Monday, the ANC via their official Twitter, appeared to call all white South Africans “murderers.” The president once even compared the strategy of dealing with whites to that of boiling frogs; you must raise the temperature slowly, so they do not notice what is happening, for if the temperature is raised suddenly, the frog will jump out of the water. Then, by the time the frog realizes it is dying, it is too late for it to escape the pot.

Despite his prejudices, Ramaphosa was still democratically elected by the people of South Africa last February. The president insists that the amendment will “promote redress, advance economic development, increase agricultural production and food security.” In reality, South Africa is beginning to head down the same path toward social and economic disaster that its northern neighbor Zimbabwe took eighteen years ago. {break}
Violence against white farmers in South Africa is already increasing. Although official numbers are not available, reports from the South African Police and the Transvaal Agricultural Union (a group representing the interests of farmers) highlight an increase in the number of attacks on white farmers. Between January and March 2018, there were 109 attacks and fifteen murders on white farms, meaning that one white farmer was killed every five days
Apparently, this cannot be true now that Mr Trump has told his State Department to look into this.
Originally Posted by a reporter
South Africa has high rates of violent crime, Patta reports, but there has been a well-funded campaign by white right-wing South Africans to promote the idea that white farmers are being deliberately killed at higher rates than people of other skin colors, and that this constitutes a "white genocide." There is no such thing in South Africa, she says.

Farmers are easy targets for violent crime because they live on remote properties with little protection. A high murder rate has nothing to do with land seizures or anti-white sentiment. It is a crime issue, Patta reports.
She would say that, wouldn't she?

Glad I don't live there. The point made earlier about "if the farms get seized, banks' loan practices change" is the kind of thing that a farmer, an economist, and a banker understands but that nitwits in a variety of national capitals either will not, do not, and in some cases cannot understand. (Due to being too thick).

For once, cannot lessons actually be learned form the sad state of affairs in Zimbabwe and the same kind of mistake not be made again? Farmers feed the nation. Please, Mr Ramaphosa, don't mess it up.
(Hmm, I seem to recall Joe Stalin doing something similar to the kulaks .... but maybe that's different? )
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:59
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
For once, cannot lessons actually be learned form the sad state of affairs in Zimbabwe and the same kind of mistake not be made again? Farmers feed the nation. Please, Mr Ramaphosa, don't mess it up.
(Hmm, I seem to recall Joe Stalin doing something similar to the kulaks .... but maybe that's different? )
Tis kind of Interesting that it is Russia giving them an option, Christianity is ok and not persecuted or abused by media, people feel safe.
Govt isn't great but everybody can say that about their own Govt.

Long felt that openening up Eastern Russia should be akin to opening up the old West.
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 05:41
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
......
... I seem to recall Joe Stalin doing something similar to the kulaks .... but maybe that's different?
You are perfectly right.


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
......
For once, cannot lessons actually be learned form the sad state of affairs in Zimbabwe and the same kind of mistake not be made again? ....
.
The main lesson learned is that there are no lessons learned...
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 05:44
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
.......

Long felt that openening up Eastern Russia should be akin to opening up the old West.
To be populated and managed by the Chinese in this case. Some difference, IMHO.
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