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South Africa on the Brink?

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South Africa on the Brink?

Old 15th Feb 2018, 01:36
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And now in Zimbabwe, the main opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, is reported as having died aged 65.

Though he has been ill for some time, his death is still sure to create a power vacuum within the opposition MDC Party.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 01:46
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Here on CNN.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/14/a...ntl/index.html
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:55
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It seems that Zuma has seen the writing on the wall. I wonder how much he has choked out of the SA government as a golden bowler.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 22:35
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An esteemed Nigerian friend (and I do mean this because he is) said the biggest issue in Africa has always been that ex leaders were either executed or jailed.
Therefore with little prospect of retirement without you and family getting executed it meant many leaders holding on to ensure they are families survival.

When leaders can go peacefully and people just ignore it then you have a hope of building functioning democracy.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 00:30
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If African leaders weren’t clinging on to power in the face of massive opposition and up to their necks in corruption they need have no fear of stepping down.

A democratic election is held, people want a change and vote in a new government. Present government leaves office, simple.

This is what happens in western countries all the time.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 07:18
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
An esteemed Nigerian friend (and I do mean this because he is) said the biggest issue in Africa has always been that ex leaders were either executed or jailed.
Therefore with little prospect of retirement without you and family getting executed it meant many leaders holding on to ensure they are families survival.

When leaders can go peacefully and people just ignore it then you have a hope of building functioning democracy.
South Africa simply does not fit that mould, as so far no former president has been jailed or executed.

Zuma might break this sequence.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 07:27
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
...

A democratic election is held, people want a change and vote in a new government. Present government leaves office, simple.

This is what happens in western countries all the time.
Africa is very different.

Originally Posted by ian16th View Post
South Africa simply does not fit that mould ...
Does SA fit any mould? This year will be the 70th anniversary of the last time that a government was voted out of office in South Africa! Quite a 'record'.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 09:07
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The new president, Cyril Ramaphosa has delivered his maiden speech;

He also spoke of accelerating land redistribution
Sounds familiar. I wonder how many ANC supporters have been promised white owned farms.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 09:36
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For thousands of years before the white man came, Africa ran along tribal lines, some big & some small with each tribe headed by a leader. By necessity that leader needed to be a brutal tyrant & buy loyalties from a core of supporters in order to survive more than a week in the position. Also the black populace, much like people from the middle eastern & north African regions have a need to be told what to do. They expect it. A couple of hundred years living under the Colonial system ain't going to change this system any time soon and "way of doing things" that has been ingrained in African society for thousands of years. The only options are "re-colonization"; which the Chinese seem to be going for in a cleverly subtle way on the dark continent these days or just let them get on with it and let nature take its course.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 10:44
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The Chinese government will get awfully annoyed if their citizens are murdered because they are Chinese.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 10:51
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6 million tax payers out of a population of 57 million people.

this is why SA is not sustainable. they are in a stall and simply don't know it yet.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 10:56
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A new broom? Wait and see.

All they may have done is stick a new head on an old handle.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 13:22
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Originally Posted by ian16th View Post
South Africa simply does not fit that mould, as so far no former president has been jailed or executed.

Zuma might break this sequence.
SA current democracy is less than 1 generation old...................... needs time to get settled between the revlutionary parties and others.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 17:58
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Originally Posted by Private jet
... "way of doing things" that has been ingrained in African society for thousands of years.
Something can only be 'ingrained' if there is any form of maintaining any status quo. Otherwise things will vary from generation to generation depending on the prevailing circumstances. South Africans are very reluctant to consider any history more than about three-quarters of a century back as anything going further fits into that 'evil' of colonialism. Sticking to less than three-quarters of a century makes full use of the oppression years to suit the 'heroic liberation' politics. The year that SA hosted the football world cup was the year that the current geographical entity of South Africa turned 100 and they ignored that. It could have been a marvelous double celebration but it was 'colonial' so it was ignored. So without history or tradition everything is very me-myself short-term hence the high levels of crime and corruption. Trying to develop a democracy without anything 'ingrained' or any common sentiment (they have 11 official languages, for goodness sake!) is about impossible. About the only common sentiment that they have is that those that stand out in the street as looking unlike most of them 'used to oppress' them. The new guy has started off by making comments about 'land grabs' from those who look like those who used to oppress them. The younger guy who previously broke away from the old guy seems to like those noises. He will probably end up reunited with the new guy and that will assure their domination of the next election and SA will be heading to a full three-quarters of a century since there was a change of government due solely to the ballot box.

In the mean time the Chinese will be tightening their grip on a 'new colonisation' in a far, far more subtle way than some Indians tried recently. And south Africans won't realise until it's too late and their state has been fully 'captured' by the Chinese.

Last edited by Trossie; 19th Feb 2018 at 06:59. Reason: Spelling correction: 'sate' corrected to 'state' in the last sentence.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 06:54
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Switzerland has 4 official languages, for goodness sake.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 23:00
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It does.. nazi gold... gold.. dodgy cash... and cash
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 06:58
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Originally Posted by Sultan Ismail View Post
Switzerland has 4 official languages, for goodness sake.
Switzerland has centuries of a clear tradition of national identity and a very strong tradition of democracy. South Africa has neither.

If you asked any South African what 'South African' means, the only 'encompassing' concept that they would only be able to point to a completely artificial set of geographical boundaries laid down by a colonial parliament thousands of miles away.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 07:21
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A collection of different black tribes, many of which don’t get along too well. Mixed race and Indians. Two different white groups speaking different languages, one side reliving the Boer war and unable to forgive the other for past injustices.

A huge divide between rich and poor, black and white with resentment still felt over apartheid and it’s lingering effects 25 years on.

No single unifying figure to replace Nelson Mandala with broad appeal to all races. Rising poverty and unemployment, decaying infrastructure, increasing crime and corruption.

Not a pretty picture.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 07:23
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I think that Wakanda should help support South Africa.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 08:00
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Centuries old tradition of democracy:
Confederation Helvetique 1848
Union of South Africa 1910

Artificial boundaries:
Limpopo to Vaal
Transvaal
Vaal to Orange
Orange Free State
Orange Southwards
Cape Province

Now add in the Tugela, Olifants, Great Fish Rivers and you will understand why there are so many tribes in South Africa.

It was the Colonialists who came along and built bridges....

Last edited by Sultan Ismail; 19th Feb 2018 at 16:42. Reason: Can't spell
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