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If ever a wake up call was needed!!!!

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If ever a wake up call was needed!!!!

Old 10th Aug 2016, 22:47
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If ever a wake up call was needed!!!!

Simply put, WTF?

Florida police shoot dead woman during safety exercise for local community
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Old 10th Aug 2016, 23:18
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What the hell is wrong with America and guns?
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Old 10th Aug 2016, 23:36
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SOPS
Nothing to worry about. Yes she was shot by police - however she is not black so her life does not matter.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 01:44
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While it's very sad that it happened...
The officer concerned was using a REAL loaded gun - as opposed to the other kind?
So now, WE ARE ALL ASKED TO PRAY?
Is something seriously wrong over there?
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 02:06
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Why is this a US problem?

Surely other countries use guns in their police duties somewhere.

I suppose that in some cases actual bullets are exchanged for blanks.

It would seem that somewhere along the line something went wrong with the exchange being noticed.

Now if this lack of attention or procedure is unique to the USA than go to it !
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 02:08
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The question to ask, my friends, is how does a cop have such lousy control of his weapon. The training is generally a whole lot better than that.

Full disclosure: my brother in law is still a cop, now just over 20 years, and has never used his weapon in any of the may situations he has been in. He spent two years training other cops in a lot of stuff, to include firearms discipline. He has also trained a lot of his cops who were in his patrol sector in all of that Police Stuff.

As PILOTS (any of you who are not pilots are not welcome to comment on this point because You Really Don't Know) we know good and well how the training and the system prepares us for success or failure in our job.

Same is true for cops.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 02:12
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Clever. Use a real gun in a role play.

THAT is what's wrong with America. Stupidity - for those too stupid to understand.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 02:31
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Shut this down.

Morons making blanket statements about a couple hundred million people, many who undoubtedly agree with gun control efforts.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 02:33
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A less sarcastic post after my last one.

The purpose of these classes, i believe, is to involve the community in various situations that police have historically been involved in. It is a win / win situation that provides training for police as well as providing good PR for the public - where they can share in the experience and get a feel for how quickly things can turn sour, how quickly decisions need to be made, and get an understanding that real life is different from the TV shows.

The fact that a real gun and real ammunition was used during this exercise is cause for concern. If it was part of the exercise, it is stupidity of the highest magnitude! if it was accidentally included during the exercise, then it is negligence. Either way it is an epic fail. Even a real gun with blanks can be dangerous. At close range even blanks can kill.

There must be a safer way of doing this type of exercise with non lethal instruments and still achieve the same feeling of realism.

I remember watching a tv show about 25-30 years ago where they interviewed a group who were opposed to police violence. They set up scenarios (based on real life incidents) on a big screen and had an electronic nintendo type pistol and ran both them and some police offices through a number of scenarios. The police actually fired in less scenarios and fired less times. The others ended up going a little 'trigger happy' and shooting in situations where lethal force was not an option.

I remember that there was one situation where both groups 'killed' the suspect who refused to stop advancing when challenged and then whipped something out from behind his back. After the smoke cleared, we found out the person was deaf and was pulling out some ID to identify. I recall that the legal ruling for that scenario when it occurred in a real life was that the decision of the office to shoot was reasonable and the shooting was deemed a tragic accident.

I also remember another scenario where both groups did not fire and were deemed killed by the suspect when he started shooting.

I would not want to be a police officer in the US.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 02:47
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Shut this down.

Morons making blanket statements about a couple hundred million people, many who undoubtedly agree with gun control efforts.
You reckon it's that many? I wouldn't have gone that high to be honest but I'll defer to your first hand knowledge...in this instance.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 03:01
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Chesty, you could have said something intelligent, about policy or training.
Or, you could have said something stupid.

Your choice was made, and the irony of your calling others stupid resonates.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 03:15
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Just goes to show the futility of "training" being the answer. It takes a bone-deep commitment to safety--loads of police are involved in ADs, a rate probably not greatly different from civilian population.

GF
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 03:56
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Chesty, you could have said something intelligent, about policy or training.
Or, you could have said something stupid.
CM has never offered a cogent argument, the above represents his standards. Happy to debate any one who wants to debate, problem is he doesn't want to or is incapable of doing so.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 05:40
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US population.

Approximately 330 million US population.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 06:09
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I'm as bewildered by the US and guns as many Europeans, but in this instance we should be careful about casting stones: Dedicated Greater Manchester Police officer was shot dead in ?deeply flawed training exercise? - Manchester Evening News.

Perhaps the current trend in the US is related to the gaming generation coming through the ranks. It's always been a suspicion that they become immune to the reality of letting off a loaded gun in real life. Either way perhaps a training issue?

Kudos to Lonewolf's B-I-L who must have faced a few life and death situations in his time. It must be acknowledged how easy it is to sit here second guessing these situations, so going 20 years without letting off a shot is impressive. Though I am assuming his beat isn't Rodeo Drive!
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 06:23
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This is not an argument about the rights and wrongs of guns. This is about the lack of training or, to be more precise, the lack of adherence to training.

In my country we have much fewer weapons. Access to weapons is predominately for those in either the armed forces or the police. Sometimes, during weapon training or on the range, there are negligent discharges which can lead to injury or death. In the vast majority of these cases, there is an error in drill either wilfully or not.

In this case, tragically, it looks like the police officer may have neglected his basic training when carrying out his Normal Safety Procedures. He isn't the first and unfortunately he won't be the last.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 06:57
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Theres a video on Liveleak of the body cam footage of a deputy jumping out his car and firing at a moving vehicle. At one stage his partner was between himself and the suspect but he just kept blatting away...how he missed his partner I don't know, on the slow mo it looks like he lets one off while his gun is pointed right at him, but his hands are moving fast. He then keeps blasting away down a suburban street, with another cruiser heading straight at him...

If I can find it again I'll post it. It makes the mind boggle
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 08:19
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Hempy, this:

Videos of deadly cop shooting show procedural errors, confusion over shots - Chicago Tribune

What is scary is also the amount of rounds that were fired by all(15-20, more), in a residential area with other cops/people around. How many hits on target?

The cop that later killed the suspect said that he thought that he was armed because he felt round hitting close to him and felt in danger, but those rounds were fired by his colleagues.

That is very scary.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 09:40
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Further to curious pax's post, police stupidity where weapons are concerned is not confined to the other side of the pond - we have our own muppets here

Girl, seven, injured as police officer fires gun during prize-winners' visit - Telegraph
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 09:49
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