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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

Old 2nd Oct 2017, 13:31
  #19161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Rob I would say I was reasonably intelligent yet I didn't know! Maybe I was thicker than the average voter who knew exactly what they were voting for

At one point I genuinely thought we could purely rectify the extremes of the EU in a new agreement

I even stupidly thought we were so vital to their economy that a leave vote would have the EU running back to the negotiating table and putting right what Cameron failed to achieve

It was a realisation that there was an ominous black cloud around Brexit that wanted to cut ties with the EU and sail away that made me decide not to vote for either

Did I know what I was voting for ? absolutely not so I must be totally thick compared to the ordinary man in the street who wouldn't have a clue what a customs union is ?
Probably thinks its his booze allowance coming back off hols
Pace, the last referendum was the most informed vote ever, no other electorate have had such a wealth of information at their fingertips and no election in my experience has had such robust debate around it. Were there lies told? yes of course by both sides, the majority in my opinion from the remain side as they had the power of a govt machine behind them. (Remember the circular sent to everybodies homes by the Govt before the start of the canpaign to avoid the money counting as electorial expenses?)

It is your duty as a voter to ensure you are totally informed as to what is on offer and the tools to do so have never been so accessable. There where two arguments put and the vote was very simple as it should be, leave or remain. Now you come across as quite an intelligent chap (mostly!!) are you saying you could not use those tools to make an informed choice? We had more information than in 1975 and there wasnt mass marches on the street about that result so you have to ask yourself why is ther now?

I don't actually mind if some people choose to vote to give themselves considerably worse lives - that's not my business, as a liberal, after all - but I do mind that they've voted to give me a considerably worse life.
As do I Gertie and I can think of nothing worse than living in a undemocratic superstate where my voice has no meaning. Thankfully now we wont have to.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 13:34
  #19162 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Philip Hammond is reported to have said: "the British people did not vote to become poorer or less secure".

This is clearly untrue, as 52% did precisely that. Hammond may have meant "... did not knowingly vote ...", I suppose, but the "knowingly" wasn't in the reports I read (and they'd have to have been seriously not paying attention not to know anyway).

I don't actually mind if some people choose to vote to give themselves considerably worse lives - that's not my business, as a liberal, after all - but I do mind that they've voted to give me a considerably worse life.
So Philip Hammond has about as much idea about why people voted as Pace.

Meanwhile life goes on..
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 13:45
  #19163 (permalink)  
 
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Pace, the last referendum was the most informed vote ever,
Absolute rubbish ! It was the most dishonest referendum with nothing but lies flying in both directions
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 13:57
  #19164 (permalink)  
 
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I even stupidly thought we were so vital to their economy that a leave vote would have the EU running back to the negotiating table
it will still happen, it will happen after the bluff is called and we are out no deal.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 14:09
  #19165 (permalink)  
 
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I don't actually mind if some people choose to vote to give themselves considerably worse lives - that's not my business, as a liberal, after all - but I do mind that they've voted to give me a considerably worse life.
Quick question GtW;

If the majority had voted for Labour at the last election, so Corbyn got into No.10 and completely decimated the economy without caring about keeping the less than half the country who did not vote for him happy, and actually did make your life considerably worse for the years until the next election, would you be equally voluble in complaining about those who democratically voted him in?

If the answer is no, then one has to wonder why you do make assertions about those who voted exit and the fact that the UK has not collapsed, and is not actually very likely to.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 14:11
  #19166 (permalink)  
 
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Absolute rubbish ! It was the most dishonest referendum with nothing but lies flying in both directions
So are you telling me you dont have the required skills to invesitigate things yourself. You have the whole net to look across, read both sides and then form your own opinion. Thats what I did, I saw all the project fear lies for what they were and understood the writing on the side of the bus that you remainers keep misinterpriting. I spoke to people from both sides and lisntned to their point and opinions. Are you telling me you did no reaserch at all and was taken in by the lies from both sides? Are you really so gullible that you take everything at face value?
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 14:15
  #19167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
If the majority had voted for Labour at the last election, so Corbyn got into No.10 and completely decimated the economy without caring about keeping the less than half the country who did not vote for him happy, and actually did make your life considerably worse for the years until the next election, would you be equally voluble in complaining about those who democratically voted him in?
Yes of course, and I would be campaigning to get them thrown out at the next available opportunity, and I might even go on marches.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 14:18
  #19168 (permalink)  
 
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Fair enough GtW, and thank you for a polite response to a polite question, it is appreciated.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 14:25
  #19169 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post

.... If this was about Brexit, why weren't they demonstrating the same way outside the Labour conference? ...
Because no-one quite knows what Labour's position is on Brexit? So they wouldn't know what to demonstrate against or indeed for.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 15:39
  #19170 (permalink)  
 
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So are you telling me you dont have the required skills to invesitigate things yourself. You have the whole net to look across, read both sides and then form your own opinion. Thats what I did, I saw all the project fear lies for what they were and understood the writing on the side of the bus that you remainers keep misinterpriting. I spoke to people from both sides and lisntned to their point and opinions. Are you telling me you did no reaserch at all and was taken in by the lies from both sides? Are you really so gullible that you take everything at face value?
Rob I am sure the average voter did all the above so much so that an average of polls post the referendum showed 62% wanted to remain in the single market while controlling immigration

Not even the Labour Party were googling as post referendum Corbyns red line was the single market and FOM
If you remember back then he wanted to deal with FOM by building more houses

So did I or other voters realise a vote for Brexit meant out of the SM out of the CU and out of the ECJ ? Absolutely NOT
I doubt many voters even knew what those were

That was an interpretation of the Brexit vote by the gang of 60 in the conservative party who have shoved their minority will into brexit but that interpretation was no way the will of 52% of voters who voted brexit
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 16:06
  #19171 (permalink)  
 
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Pace

There can be no clearer way of putting the question, Do you want to leave the EU, Yes or No.

Then there was, the government will abide by the result of the referendum.

Out means out.

And finally, every family in the UK will lose £4,300 if you decide to vote in favour of leaving the EU.

It is beyond belief that anyone cannot have known exactly what they were voting for and yet the majority still voted to leave the EU.

Those of us who voted to leave expect(ed) the government to leave the EU without any transition period or other agreement on 29/3/2019. We accept that we may be £4,300 per family worse off as a result of this decision. We want a cliff edge Brexit in other words and are prepared to accept the consequences.

Some people will be worse off than before, too bad.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 16:08
  #19172 (permalink)  
 
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So did I or other voters realise a vote for Brexit meant out of the SM out of the CU and out of the ECJ ? Absolutely NOT
utter bollocks.

if your that stupid not to know what the vote is about you shouldn't have a vote.

Those very facts are the reason why a lot of us voted the way we did.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 16:48
  #19173 (permalink)  
 
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And now for something completely different:

What some appear to be doing since they lost, is in hindsight to claim that they were not told what leave the EU meant, but primarily their error was they never had to consider what leaving meant as they were never going to lose the referendum so didnít listen or believed project fear, now that could be considered stupid to not even consider that possible outcome and/or believing project fear.

But due to that mentality they then have to turn their frustrations/embarrassment at losing by transferring the blame for their mistaken thought processes onto the exit voter, classic blame transfer.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-hurt-and-fear
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 16:58
  #19174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
utter bollocks.

if your that stupid not to know what the vote is about you shouldn't have a vote.

Those very facts are the reason why a lot of us voted the way we did.
WOW! I totally agree with you Tesco. Most "Leave" voters should not have voted. They really didn't and still don't have a clue what they voted for.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:16
  #19175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda View Post
WOW! I totally agree with you Tesco. Most "Leave" voters should not have voted. They really didn't and still don't have a clue what they voted for.
Which is why we do our normal political business via representative democracy - the politicians are supposed to read the thousands of pages of documentation and sit through the hours of technical briefings before making up their minds on even relatively minor matters. (Not all politicians do pay proper attention, of course, but usually enough do, that's one reason for having so many of them.)
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:24
  #19176 (permalink)  
 
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...and then temper their own feelings with the mood of the people which, as we know, was 52/48 for exit.

WOW! I totally agree with you Tesco. Most "Leave" voters should not have voted. They really didn't and still don't have a clue what they voted for.
Of course it hardly needs be said that you did.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:27
  #19177 (permalink)  
 
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We do know what we voted for and a very happy with the result and the way things are progressing.

Looking forward to the day when all the waffling bollocks stops getting spouted and everyone has no option but to crack on outside the EU.

I know it won't stop the bitching even when the economy doesn't crash but such is life
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:31
  #19178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Some people will be worse off than before, too bad.
How very public spirited of you.

Those who are already struggling to keep financially afloat will no doubt be very grateful.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:36
  #19179 (permalink)  
 
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Those who are already struggling to keep financially afloat will no doubt be very grateful.
Are they not one of the main demographic group that voted exit?

That is something I think I remember being explained almost at the beginning of this thread, although in fairness I have slept since then.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:55
  #19180 (permalink)  
 
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So did I or other voters realise a vote for Brexit meant out of the SM out of the CU and out of the ECJ ? Absolutely NOT
I doubt many voters even knew what those were
Oh dear, I thought we had got past this but you obviously need another reminder that it was spelled out clerly by both sides what leaving the EU would mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNnh-KhiLm0&t=16s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIs91w7atjg

So are you honestly saying you did not understand that?
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