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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

Old 22nd Aug 2017, 11:02
  #16361 (permalink)  
 
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and Denmark isn't that far behind.

When the rotten fish salads start making an appearance they might have a change of feeling as well.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 11:07
  #16362 (permalink)  
 
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Canada’s largest lender set to choose Dublin as its post-Brexit base - Independent.ie
https://apple.news/AYuaUpk2jPcSdw1aIcFMbNw

I wonder why Canadas largest lender wants to place itself in Ireland when it has sorry a to be had the worlds number 1 financial centre in LONDON

TescoApp

You really want that disorganised shower called the Conservative party running the country or when the government fall flat on their face through brexit how about Jeremy Corbyn ?
We can carry on with great democracy where we have the first past the post system decided by the well ?? Undecided

Admit it ? )) you lot are driven by days of the empire when an Englishman was an Englishman
Just popped into Borough market
Stalls set up from all areas of the EU selling Italian / French / Spanish produce
Stopped for coffee on the way out
Looking at the people walking by hardly an Englishman in sight what a refreshing atmosphere

As for the girls walking by ? Wow!! hang on pace they are all trouble )) wherever they come from

Bring on Corbyn because that is who you will get if you persist with this damaging brexit
Then back to the yo yo of Labour then Conservative then labour etc can't wait for this go ahead populism ((((

Last edited by Pace; 22nd Aug 2017 at 11:19.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 11:26
  #16363 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC should never have bigged up a ridiculous study saying a hard Brexit would be good for the UK economy - The Independent
https://apple.news/ASQp1HC99QruS8ZUV1ql_pg

Minford cheating the public with ludicrous claims from desperate brexiteers
Distance like length does matter in trade and other things
Foolish or dishonest Minford ?
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 11:35
  #16364 (permalink)  
 
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As I am not an English man or woman I really don't know.

And no its not what drives me to think the UK would be better away from the EU.

Its actually for both sides benefit that the UK departs. It allows the EU to go in the direction that was intended if it survives. And it allows the UK to continue in the direct that suits it and stops constant battles. Unfortunately for those with similar feelings as the UK about social integration they are on there own now. Its either do it and shut up or come out. Unfortunately for them Art 50 will be rewritten so a walk away option is not available.

an office in Dublin is just that. The real work will be somewhere else. I have a mate that does loads of IT admin on financial databases in London. London is a shite hole that he has to be dragged screaming and blackmailed into visiting. He is more than happy sitting in Cyprus doing the work along with 4-5 others in an "office" paid in the UK pays taxes in the UK on paper works in London, physical location 100 meters away from a beach boozer with a topless beach in front.

Unless the EU blocks all VPN connections in and out of the EU it has zero control over where the work is actually done.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 13:10
  #16365 (permalink)  
 
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TescoApp putting aside your emotions on the EU you come across as a very astute and intelligent guy

Many here have commented on the ideology of brexit
Any ideology not based on sound economics becomes a luxury

As with any luxury you can afford that indulgence or not

Brexit without retaining fully our market in the EU as well as the inward investment due to that market means we cannot afford brexit
You either retain it through the amazing deal May promised but won't deliver or you retain it with a long transition

World trade until its there is hot air
Until that world trade replaces what we loose we absolutely must fully retain our access to the single market
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 13:24
  #16366 (permalink)  
 
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Many here have commented on the ideology of brexit
Any ideology not based on sound economics becomes a luxury
Wrong if you went with that then all sorts of atrocity's would be come valid.

Past working age and you run out of pension money and no family willing to pay up for your on going care. Step this way, there is a dog you can stroke while the needle goes in.

Economically its a perfect solution to an aging population and pressure on a reduced workforce.

For a start I do not believe the remain theory's on the economy direction on a no deal exit. Just as they may not agree with my theory's on the outlook for the EU post exit.

Such is life.

But to say we should stay in even though we are not interested in the Eu clubs values and goals just because it would mean some economic turmoil just shows the reason why the EU will be well happy to get shot of us. And we should excuse ourselves ASAP what ever the cost. Then both parties can start moving forward in different directions.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 14:05
  #16367 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Tesco app

You filter in the media you want which can include the Daily Mail ))if you really want accurate unbiased journalism ))
With any media you have to build a picture from a number of sources and see what makes sense
LOL - this from a poster that uses a service that filters news sources for him so that he only gets bad news about Brexit.

You couldnt make it up..
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 14:11
  #16368 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post

I'm sure that Patrick Minford passionately believes the models he uses to substantiate his position that Brexit will be a great success. Other experts will analyse and question his assumptions and may come up with alternative conclusions. To dismiss either as experts whom we distrust is not a path I believe we should go down.
I would agree with all that. When we get these experts declaring X,Y,Z my first reaction is to look at their track record - how accurate have they been in the past and do they have a history of pushing a specific mantra?.

For example if an Economist promised that not joining the Euro would lead to major economic damage for the UK and now is promising exactly the same if we leave the Single Market, I tend to push his opinion down the evidence scale.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 16:05
  #16369 (permalink)  
 
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As this is a hamster wheel I thought I'd give it another spin, and point out, yet again, that the EU is not undemocratic, it is just democracy on a larger scale. We elect (elected) MEPs using a far more democratic system than that which we insist on in UK, though sadly far too few members of the electorate bother to vote - voter apathy is something the EU has to address.
Ok so please explain to me how I elect the commission? answer I cant, I can only elect MEPs who have no law making powers at all. That rests with unelected commissioners who have to swear an oath of loyalty to the EU (why if it isnt a country?) I cant influence the choice of any of the Presidents (as we found out when Junker was elected) Also why do some countrys wield more power per head of population than others? Malta has more voting rights in that respect than we do. So yes it is a kind of democracy, the kind practised in Russia back in the cold war days. I seem to also remember in the last EU elections that the largest party in the UK result was UKIP with a 10% swing. Maybe that should have rung warning bells in Brussels but (as Camerons failed attempt to renegotiate our terms demonstrated) the EU does not care about democracy

The UK is similarly undemocratic, in so far as Scotland, England and Wales are governed from Westminster and the parliaments / assemblies in Scotland and Wales have limited powers to govern their own countries. England has no government of it's own.
Sorry that is totally incorrect. The UK has been a single country for 300+ years and all people have identical voting power. The fact that we have devolved power is a good thing, unfortunatly it is going the other way with the EU

I appreciate Brexiteers just don't want to accept that, but they are entitled to their ideology, even though it is bedded in the past. Even regions / countries such as Catalunya and Scotland that want their independence want it within the framework of the EU - they're not after being "Billy no Mates" on the outside looking in.
Ooops Scotland voted to remain didnt they? so they expressed their democratic voice. I appreciate remainers dont want to accept democracy (probably why they love the EU) but we still live under that system in the UK. We voted to leave and leave we will.

What is it that we English find so hard with the concept of supra national cooperation?
Co operation is a good thing but why does that mean you have to be part of a wider EU superstate to make it happen. Other areas of the world seem to co operate without it as do we in organisartions such as NATO. (THere is another question, why does the EU want to undermine NATO by setting up its own armed forces and why do they need them if they are not a country?) No one asked the UK population did they want to be in the EU, it was quietly agreed behind closed doors. Also why seperate out England? the UK as a whole voted to leave, yes if you break it down to country level Scotland and N Ireland voted to remain but the vote was country wide not nation specific. Sturgeon rowed back on the second referendum because she knew despite Scotland voting to remain in the EU they would vote to stay in the UK.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 16:05
  #16370 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know if anything was being implied or not, but thought it was worth dissecting the article posted:

I wonder why Canada's largest lender wants to place itself in Ireland when it has sorry a to be had the worlds number 1 financial centre in LONDON
From the article:

Toronto-Dominion Bank, Canada’s largest lender by assets, is believed to be close to choosing Dublin as its post-Brexit European hub, a person familiar with the matter said.
I wonder who is the person ‘familiar’ with the matter, is he actually correct, and it is only ‘believed’ to be close to choosing Dublin, however see below, they already have an office in Dublin, so it is an expansion, so how many people a few, hundreds or thousands.

The bank, which has previously refused to comment on post-Brexit plans, currently employs around 290 employees in its TD Securities business which is based mainly in London.
So, it already has people in London, and do not state that these are going so they already enjoy the privileges of the No. 1 Finance Centre, or is the implication that this office will go?

Toronto-Dominion Bank, which has approximately 85,000 employees globally, also already has office in Dublin.
So they are only expanding the office they already have in Dublin, so not quite what you appear to be alluding to in your post

So far a relatively small number of financial institutions have decided to expand their presences in Dublin as a result of Brexit.
We are still waiting for the mass exodus of all financial institutions from London to EU 27 countries, which is a fact that has been stated numerous times since the referendum will definitely happen, or is that now waiting until after March 2019, by which time any business that has not already made plans for brexit by now, could be considered a bit late in forward planning and even financially lacking in business acumen, any that go out of business have only themselves to blame rather than brexit if that is the case.

Merely requesting clarification of where we are in the financial sectors brexit exodus timetable.

Pace your comment:

The Irish PM talks total sense
Any chance you can expand and explain why you think this is the case, I can guess I suppose, but that comment does not give much scope for debate, it is more like a statement of fact that is not open for debate, or question.

Last edited by Exrigger; 22nd Aug 2017 at 16:35.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 16:29
  #16371 (permalink)  
 
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Dont hold your breath for the exodus. It wont happen.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 16:51
  #16372 (permalink)  
 
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But the economic experts on here have stated it is so, and the links they have provided have confirmed that fact, as is the same for the car industry, would be a tad embarrassing if it is not true.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 18:07
  #16373 (permalink)  
 
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the Europeans are already scratching their heads what they are going to do with the two EU agency's that are being moved. Including the EU citizens that came to the UK to work for them.

The majority of the workers in both have declined the offer to move to where the new office is going.

So the EU is stuck with a huge shortage of skill set and boxes of paper work which nobody has a clue what to do with.

Which is a bit of concern for them because they are looking at the medical testing agency and financial standards agency having to be green fields established again. Both of which are highly skilled agency's with limited experienced skilled workers who are competent for the roles.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 18:47
  #16374 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, I saw that report. 3/4 of the staff at the European Medicines Agency are threatening to resign rather than leave London - bit of a pickle for the EU..
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:09
  #16375 (permalink)  
 
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How the EU trapped itself into a no-break lease in Britain ? POLITICO

Oh dear the EU is in a pickle over this, wonder how much the divorce bill could be reduced after this is sorted.

And they come up with this:

The EU has made it clear that the U.K. will be responsible for picking up the tab for moving the EMA and the much smaller European Banking Authority out of London and into somewhere else in the EU. That seems to include whatever financial liabilities arise from the EMA having to break its lease and move.

Followed by this:

“The U.K. will have a duty to facilitate the transfer of the two EU agencies,” one press officer for Michel Barnier, the European Commission’s Brexit negotiator, said in a statement.
Very Trump like, with his wall, however the staff don't want to move, the UK are quite happy for them to stay, yet the EU dictate that they will move, in fact the UK have a duty to facilitate the move and pick up the tab, and they are the clever ones we want our economy and country to be controlled by.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:10
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The financial lot are in the same pickle. Loads of jobs available for them in London. And they have no want or need to move.

In fact the EU is going to drop significantly down the international research tables with the UK gone. Over 2 million publications gone from their count. Per population it will go down to second league status. If it wasn't for Germany it would be third league status.

Their number of Noble prize winners is going to plummet by some 120.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:14
  #16377 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Very Trump like, with his wall, however the staff don't want to move, the UK are quite happy for them to stay, yet the EU dictate that they will move, in fact the UK have a duty to facilitate the move and pick up the tab, and they are the clever ones we want our economy and country to be controlled by.
Perfectly reasonable that the idiots who caused the mess should clear it up at no cost to the victims, surely to goodness.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:17
  #16378 (permalink)  
 
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I notice they are offering substantial re-location packages, especially for those with children to encourage them to leave London, but I suppose that could be considered as standard practice even if that package is considerably larger than anyone would call standard.

GTW: The UK have caused no mess, the UK has not said they have to move, they don't actually need to move so that also is not the UK fault that the EU has dictated arbitrarily that they will be moved, so why should the UK pay for the mess the EU idiots have got themselves in, they could not agree to include a break clause in the lease when they should of.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:26
  #16379 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Perfectly reasonable that the idiots who caused the mess should clear it up at no cost to the victims, surely to goodness.
It's the EU that has decided that they need to move, not the UK.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:43
  #16380 (permalink)  
 
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Jet 11

Get real it is us who said out is out of everything EU not them
You want to keep in by keeping those agencies here ?

This is the worst kind of divorce where there are no winners and each side reckons the other is the unreasonable one

We were doing incredibly well in that marriage it was us who were attracted to that ugly bitch called Brexavia and left not the EU
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