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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

Old 18th Jan 2017, 12:49
  #7341 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SMT Member View Post
yellowtriumph



In other words, Mrs. May is suggesting full access to the common market, knowing full well that the UK would stand far more to win by such a deal. However, the EU has made it quiet clear there will no free movement of goods and services without free movement of people.

As for the 'financial services', think you'll find it's rather easy to move a few thousand people from one desk to another, much more than it is moving entire factories. After all, the only thing these 'financial services' need is a phoneline and an internet connection. So ask yourself this: Would the banks of the world currently working out of The City remain if there's no free movement of goods and services, or would they move their non-UK work to the EU?
Of course you're correct that currently the EU is saying there will be no clear and unfettered access to the single market without agreeing to free movement of people. Let us see how that develops.

With regards banking, of course you know you have over simplified the requisites of a financial institution, but apart from the possibility of establishing a few outreach offices in the EU I haven't seen any of the institutions saying they are going to re-locate to the EU. Have you? I recall earlier last year HSBC re-affirming it will keep it's HQ in London. But let us see. I think it's generally recognised that the UK is 'easier' to do business in than the EU, I refer to the generally accepted notion of less business regulation in the UK, less 'red tape' if you like.

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 18th Jan 2017 at 13:18.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 12:55
  #7342 (permalink)  
 
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SARF: you say, referring to FEXCO:
why would anyone listen to a bucket shop in Dublin.
Actually they are headquartered in a small town in Kerry (Killorglin), but they have a worldwide presence in FinTech. As far as I am aware they have a good reputation in what is a highly competitive area.

Interesting how Brexiteers just diss anyone they disagree with. Especially if they are foreign, and maybe really especially if they are uppity Irish.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 13:00
  #7343 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The UK is behaving as though we still had am empire - no surprise there. Tell what Johnny Foreigner what we demand, and expect them to roll over and play dead.

When that gigantic gamble fails, perhaps that will be the end of FCO "colonial" policies once and for all and we'll realise finally that we don't call all the shots.

If that happens, the UK will finally understand it's place in the world - and coming back to the title of the thread that would be one big Pro for the Brexit result!
I'm not sure I understand your post. I didn't detect Mrs May making any demands of our current partners in the EU. I believe she set out, in general principles, what it is that the UK will be seeking in our relationship with the EU after Brexit. A sort of wish or shopping list if you like. It's up to the UK/EU negotiators to see what common ground we may have and what we can settle on. Do you think that the EU should have it's own red lines with its negotiating position, but that the UK should have none?

I'm bewildered by your references to Empire etc, we have no Empire and we have no aspiration to attain one or keep one. For the record I am quite content for a future UK to be a little island off the coast of mainland EU, minding our own business and getting on with our daily lives. I would say in the same breath though that it is nice to have a seat on the UN security council (that the EU would like to take over I believe) and it is nice to have our own nuclear deterrent in case someone decides to poke us with a sharp stick soasto speak.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 13:00
  #7344 (permalink)  
 
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Economics. And you're implying the remainiacs don't do the same? They post the same drivel over and over again, and gloss over anything that doesn't suit their narrative. Let's keep it balanced. We diss any source that we don't think credible. We do that based on their lack of credibility, not their nationality. Only today we have seen Xenophobia and ageism from a staunch remainiac. You get good and bad in both camps.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 13:03
  #7345 (permalink)  
 
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More bad news. We were told that people are not visiting the UK to take advantage of great exchange rate.

Burberry seem to believe otherwise, catastrophic 40% sales boost.

Burberry benefits from strong British performance over Christmas | Reuters

Things terribly bad at Greggs, a devastating 7% increase.

http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Bus...-boost-in-2016

A dismal 22% sales increase blow at Joules.

https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog...over-christmas

Whilst Jamie Oliver closes 6 of his failing restaurants on the back of more expensive tinned tomatoes, Casual Dining Group enjoys a 10.8% sales boost.

http://eatoutmagazine.co.uk/casual-d...l-year-results

Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 18th Jan 2017 at 13:14.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 13:20
  #7346 (permalink)  
 
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Petty sniping from the usual sources...

'Little Britain': newspapers in Europe mock UK and Theresa May over PM's Brexit speech

Article taken from another blog....

Of all the ingredients that helped us build a nation and an empire I think there is one that stands out as peculiarly British. Self confidence. For a relatively small country we have extended the reach of our influence to all parts and corners of the globe. We did that because we believed in ourselves, our values and traditions and saw in them the vehicle through which the world could be made a better place. We shared them and although there were some mistakes along the way it has to be said that the present world order bears the imprint of the British hand. India, Africa, North America and Canada; in short three of the world's continents do things in the British way. This is no mean achievement for the people of a tiny, foggy, rain swept island floating in isolation a little way off the coast of mainland Europe. And speaking of Europe, that other continent, twice saved by the people of Great Britain, what would it be without the British? We need take no lectures from Germany, France or Italy about what we can and cannot do. We know what we are capable of. Of all the nations of the earth Great Britain can say more readily than most; We have been there, done that and when the sun shines we will wear the t-shirt.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 13:40
  #7347 (permalink)  
 
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Of course you're correct that currently the EU is saying there will be no clear and unfettered access to the single market without agreeing to free movement of people. Let us see how that develops.
Quite so, the challenge below that was studiously avoided is an eagle eye view of the EU deal with Canada:


Or she may be asking for something like tariff free trade in 98% of agricultural products, 100% of industrial products and all tariffs on fishery products. Perhaps she is asking for commitments on both sides with regard to discriminatory measures and quantitative restrictions across all sectors as well as broad regulatory provisions on key sectors such as financial or telecommunication services, whilst not accepting free movement of people.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 13:41
  #7348 (permalink)  
 
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Especially if they are foreign, and maybe really especially if they are uppity Irish.
The race card gets really boring.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:19
  #7349 (permalink)  
 
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From today's Telegraph:

Remainers are wrong: Britons do want a hard Brexit, and delivering one would create a new Conservative ascendancy.

Matthew Goodwin

Theresa May is more in touch with most Britons' instincts than any of her rivals. It is often the case that the most significant speeches are also the most divisive. This Tuesday, Theresa May’s long-awaited speech on Brexit was instantly hailed by Eurosceptics as a masterpiece but criticized by Remainers as signalling the start of economic ruin. Of those who objected to the Prime Minister’s confirmation that Britain is leaving the single market and will prioritize controls over immigration, Tim Farron, leader of the Liberal Democrats, went further than most by suggesting that the speech amounted to a "theft of democracy".

Such reactions reveal how, despite being nearly seven months on from the vote, many of those who campaign against the outcome show little understanding of what has just happened in this country. At the extreme end of the scale are those who reject the result completely, who, as my colleague Professor Vernon Bogdanor has observed, find themselves in a curious alliance with activists in the nineteenth century who opposed the extension of the franchise. Then there are those who somehow thought that remaining embedded in the single market would be an acceptable outcome, ignoring the fact that the actual drivers of the Leave vote make this outcome entirely impossible.

In her speech, Prime Minister May noted how such an outcome would "not mean leaving the EU at all", and when seen through the eyes of the average Leave voter this is entirely accurate. All of the research that has been carried out on the Brexit vote delivers a clear and consistent message: it was motivated by intense public angst over the uncontrolled free movement of EU workers, parallel anxieties over a perceived loss of national sovereignty to Brussels, and by voters who are not just concerned about the economic effects of migration and EU membership but also how these have impacted on their local communities, national identity and culture. The latter concerns are diffuse, complex and not easily defined, but as we discovered last June 23 they are also incredibly powerful. And responding to them, after years of failing to do so, means leaving the single market.

Most Remainers have still not grasped that the vote for Brexit was not simply about economic self-interest, which is why they cling desperately to warnings of financial doom. If the vote had merely been about economics and if such warnings were effective, then Britain would still be in the EU. Not only does this conveniently ignore the economic reality across the channel, which is a toxic cocktail of stagnant growth, unemployment, debt and widening disparities, but it also mistakenly assumes that voters will respond to any future economic problems in Britain by rushing back to the liberal consensus on EU membership. Yet there is an equally plausible alternative, that any downturn or sharp rise in inflation will harden the resolve of Leavers to push back against a dogmatic EU and distance themselves from a weak eurozone. In the 1970s Britain joined the European Community because as a nation it felt economically left behind. Look across the Channel and few could make that case now with a straight face.

/contd
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:20
  #7350 (permalink)  
 
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Contd/

This is also true when it comes to explaining anti-EU sentiment across the continent. There is now a large body of research which demonstrates how public discontent with the EU is not anchored simply in concerns about GDP but is wrapped up with general worries over immigration, threats to national identity, a lack of democratic accountability in EU institutions and a feeling that European integration has "gone too far". By focusing narrowly on economics both the EU and Remainers gloss these deeper wells of public discontent which will, one way or another, make themselves known in the near future.

Prime Minister May has grasped this reality and is being rewarded by voters, if not much of the media class in London. Just look at the fundamentals in British politics right now. When voters are asked who would make the best prime minister May is nearly 30-points ahead of Corbyn. The Labour leader will, put simply, never be prime minister.

Even more striking is that when people are asked who they feel favourable towards, among the over-65s May enjoys a remarkable 57-point lead over her Labour rival. When voters are asked which party they trust on various issues the Conservatives almost have a full house – they hold commanding leads on Brexit, immigration, the economy, jobs, taxation, crime and education. Labour’s 7-point lead on the NHS should be seen alongside the fact that on the eve of the 1997 general election this was nearly 50 points – and that when it comes to leaders May is still more trusted on healthcare than Corbyn.

It would be a mistake to trace this to the unpopularity of Corbyn alone. Something more profound has happened. Among those who study European politics there is a consensus that the underlying foundations are changing in a deep and major way. Unlike past decades, when economic issues governed debates between the "left and right" and voters were driven more strongly by their class interests, today there is a new divide in the West.

Debates over the economy and distribution are making way for new debates over identity and values, which are rising up the agenda. Britain is not alone in wanting to debate these issues. According to the latest Eurobarometer survey, which tracks public opinion across the EU, the two top issues for voters are immigration and terrorism. Europe’s leaders often suggest that Britain is uniquely obsessed with immigration, but they ignore wider trends.

On one side of this debate are liberals who share a relaxed, cosmopolitan outlook on issues that concern national identity and sovereignty, favouring open borders, markets and EU integration. On the other are those who share a more socially conservative philosophy, who value the nation state, want to control its borders and accept that globalization has not worked out for all.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:20
  #7351 (permalink)  
 
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Contd/

The Prime Minister’s speech, which talked of protecting workers’ rights and controlling borders, will resonate strongly among the latter, voters who in economic terms are instinctively protectionist, who worry about corporate greed, rapacious banks and inequality, but who on social issues want controlled borders and a restoration of national sovereignty. While Labour and Remainers hold onto sections of the new middle class who support the liberal consensus on mass immigration and EU membership they are losing left behind workers and the aspirational lower middle-classes. That Labour’s current coalition cannot endure is reflected in the fact that while nearly half of the 100 most pro-Brexit seats in the country are held by Labour so too are nearly half of the 100 most pro-Remain.

As her speech revealed, Prime Minister May is more firmly in tune with how the political currents are changing. This goes a long way to explaining her popularity and why, were an election held tomorrow, Labour would likely poll its lowest share of the vote since 1918 while May would be returned with a commanding majority. Across the West, it is social democrats who are failing to adapt to the new identity axis, preaching only about economics while ignoring or dismissing deep public angst over the pace of change, national belonging and cherished values.

There are further spoils to be had. If May’s Brexit stance wins back just half of the Ukip electorate then between 40-50 Labour seats will also go blue, marginal seats like the City of Chester where Labour sits on small majorities. Remainers like Farron may well have found themselves a niche, but the Prime Minister may be leading her party toward a new era of Conservative dominance.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:21
  #7352 (permalink)  
 
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Supreme Court decision

Will be Tuesday next week

Not that it will make much difference.
Parliament will approve whatever.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:21
  #7353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Economics101 View Post
SARF: you say, referring to FEXCO:

Actually they are headquartered in a small town in Kerry (Killorglin), but they have a worldwide presence in FinTech. As far as I am aware they have a good reputation in what is a highly competitive area.

Interesting how Brexiteers just diss anyone they disagree with. Especially if they are foreign, and maybe really especially if they are uppity Irish.
You dont have to believe them or anyone else - all you have to do is look for yourself at the timeline of the speech. May announced that Parliament would get a vote at 12:00 but the Pound had started its rapid ascent at 10:15 which finished about 14:20. Now the announcement of Parliaments vote may have keep the rise going but it certainly was not what caused it to start.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:23
  #7354 (permalink)  
 
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Pace, post #7394 has done what I suggested you do.

Yet again you are WRONG.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:31
  #7355 (permalink)  
 
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FYI

Someone suggested it was TM's idea to deprive parliament of a vote.
Before the vote, call me Dave had said that the royal prerogative would be used.
This was the advice of the AG.

The suggestion that this was TM's idea shows a touch of ignorance. And not a little ignoring the facts.

In any event, same outcome. It is not as if parliament are going to go against the referendum.
Ken Clarke might....but he doesn't give a **** and the public doesn't really give a **** if he does vote as the only Tory against it.

Someone said 20 Tory MPs are in favour of the single market. I suspect privately a lot more than 20 support the single market. However, what they do in public when the division bells rings counts.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:45
  #7356 (permalink)  
 
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In any event, same outcome. It is not as if parliament are going to go against the referendum.
They won't go against the referendum that's different to insisting on the economy first with market access
Most will go against a damaging hard brexit
So if you mean going against the referendum means supporting Mays wishes you may be in for a shock
The 20 MPs are committed single market supporters who will not support the government when push comes to shove without such an access

Next stop Supreme Court there are laws established in our own which may have to be repealed first as suggested by one Supreme Court Judge
If that's the case then no way March
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:58
  #7357 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sta...?client=safari

If this guy was leader of the Labour Party May would have some serious worries

Khan hard brexit ( how come everyone is using my description ? ) could rip the uk apart
Khan makes a blistering attack on May
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:59
  #7358 (permalink)  
 
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Pace, when you say

...Most will go against a damaging hard brexit ..

Given that most people would accept that 'most' equates to 'a majority', what evidence do you have that the majority of MP's will go against a damaging hard brexit?
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 15:17
  #7359 (permalink)  
 
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If this guy was leader of the Labour Party May would have some serious worries
Didnt he promise Londoners there would be no public transport strikes on his watch and that fare would not rise? How did that work out?
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 15:18
  #7360 (permalink)  
 
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If this guy was leader of the Labour Party May would have some serious worries
Or this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA4rfT8SYos
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