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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Old 16th Jan 2018, 09:12
  #25221 (permalink)  
 
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I have only promoted a referendum in event of the worst deal of all
Collapse of talks in stalemate and the prospect of no deal and WTO
No one voted for that failure scenario
Err yes we did, we voted to LEAVE the EU. There was no rider on the vote saying if we dont get a deal we will have another vote. Think about it, the EU will be watching all this and they know because of remainers like you and Adonis they just need to keep ramping up the pressure and hope they can force a second referendum just like they did in Ireland. Its a standard EU tactic and you and a lot of others have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

It would be a travesty of democracy for a Government failure to be hoisted onto the U.K without their consent
Yes a no deal would be a huge failure by this government and their red lines
See what I mean? that last statement could have come from the EU propoganda machine. We had a vote, the vote was leave so we will leave just like our PM promised. Anything else is supression of democracy. If you want to campaign to go back in afterwards then you can, democracy in action but the difference is that this time remainers will have to tell the truth about the final destination for the UK if we are in the EU.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 09:31
  #25222 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile in other news, we find that the foreign sectretary has not merely repeated the proven lie about the liberation of £350m/wk by leaving the EU - he's now claiming that the number is an underestimate and should be £362m rising to £438m by the end of the (as yet undefined) transition period. Clearly another lie.

Now while we recognise that, as a brexit supporter, the man must be a compulsive liar and of vanishingly low intellect because those are the established signature characteristics of the brexit fraternity. But he is a cabinet minister, and as such we have a right to expect certain minimum standards of behaviour. He has demonstrably, repeatedly and deliberately spoken untruths for personal advancement and personal gain, so we must surely expect, nay demand, his immediate resignation and forfeiture of any parliamnetary salary, benefits and pension.

Why is this lying buffoon still in public office? He's even bringing the Leave fraterity into further disrepute, which is a heck of an achievement (to add further disrepute to an acknowledged disreputable group takes a lot of concerted effort).

PDR
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 09:41
  #25223 (permalink)  
 
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the man must be a compulsive liar and of vanishingly low intellect because those are the established signature characteristics of the brexit fraternity.
That's not a very nice thing to say about me as I am a brexiteer as well.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 09:56
  #25224 (permalink)  
 
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I agree roger. Whatever your persuasion, a quite unnecessary remark, of low intellect, PDR.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 09:58
  #25225 (permalink)  
 
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Rob

That is a very irresponsible attitude to take
People voted for many reasons the floating voters even influenced by the Boris Bus
They would have put their trust in Government that brexit would improve their lot
In the event of a no deal departure the country will take severe damage as shown by how the world markets value such a prospect via our currency

A no deal exit will be the result of red lines
Norway is not in the EU

People have a right to judge that failure bytjis government as itís they who will pay
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 10:04
  #25226 (permalink)  
 
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That is a very irresponsible attitude to take
People voted for many reasons the floating voters even influenced by the Boris Bus
They would have put their trust in Government that brexit would improve their lot
In the event of a no deal departure the country will take severe damage as shown by how the world markets value such a prospect via our currency

A no deal exit will be the result of red lines
Norway is not in the EU

People have a right to judge that failure bytjis government as itís they who will pay
Of course they have the right. Thats why you need to start a campaign to take us back in after we have left. What are you afraid of? if its as bad as you keep saying we will be back in no time. Unfortunatly for you remainers it is difficult to argue that people should get a vote on terms when the same pro EU MPs have repeatedly denied the electorate a vote on any EU treaties that changed the terms we joined on. If that had happened then we wouldnt be here now.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 10:14
  #25227 (permalink)  
 
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Well PDR, it looks like Boris was telling the truth

https://order-order.com/2018/01/16/284957/

According to the latest official figures from the ONS, the UK contribution to the EU was £18.9 billion in 2016. That is £363.5 million a week, slightly more than was on the side of the Vote Leave busÖ
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 10:22
  #25228 (permalink)  
 
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Really? That's a strange usage of the word "truth".

In the same source even Guido admits that the actual figure (the money we would liberate for other spending like the NHS) is still only £180m/wk. This is why we feel that the Brexit Elite are simply compulsive in their mendacity (and/or thick as pig excrement, to use the internationally agree scale of intellectual capacity).

PDR
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 10:30
  #25229 (permalink)  
 
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Rob

I am only talking of another deal scenario
It would be a mess
Even the conservatives would split the pound would plummet
I don’t think you would have a choice as it would be voted through by Parliament
A no deal would guarantee Corbyn

But it doesn’t have to be that way May can still go out but retain the SM albeit with the 4 freedoms
At least it would’ve afirst step rather than a disaster
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 10:46
  #25230 (permalink)  
 
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I am only talking of another deal scenario
It would be a mess
Even the conservatives would split the pound would plummet
I donít think you would have a choice as it would be voted through by Parliament
A no deal would guarantee Corbyn

But it doesnít have to be that way May can still go out but retain the SM albeit with the 4 freedoms
At least it wouldíve afirst step rather than a disaster
She cant Pace because that would leave the UK still in the EU in all but name which is not leaving. In your scenario we would still have to comply with all EU rules and regulations while having no say in the rules and no ability to make our own deals. So if theres no deal then its WTO which if its so bad will give you a springboard in your campaign to take us back in.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 11:18
  #25231 (permalink)  
 
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Why is this lying buffoon still in public office? He's even bringing the Leave fraterity into further disrepute, which is a heck of an achievement (to add further disrepute to an acknowledged disreputable group takes a lot of concerted effort).
PDR:

That's an easy one. Because the May woman hasn't got the balls to sack him, or ship him off to Northern Ireland, or somewhere else he can cause less damage.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 11:46
  #25232 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...reverse-brexit

EU are still hoping we will change our minds
If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy. We, here on the continent, haven’t had a change of heart; our hearts are still open” to Britain.
Said by Tusk and only too true unless your an ideological brexiteer


If the U.K. government sticks to its decision to leave, Brexit will become a reality with all its negative consequences in March next year, unless there is a change of heart among our British friends,” Tusk, who chairs meetings of EU government heads, told the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France on Tuesday
.

Last edited by Pace; 16th Jan 2018 at 12:02.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 12:13
  #25233 (permalink)  
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I'm sure in our glorious past one of the peasants was delegated as an official food taster for the gentry, less other peasants decided to get rid of said gentry.

Thus, a perfect opportunity for a new role for Boris ! He is, after all, in favour of a trade deal with the US.

The serious bit.

The more you read, the more disturbing American food standards become and here the law of unintended consequences may well apply....notably our securing a deal as a result of Brexit with a very tangible degradation in our food consumption standards as a result.

This concern has been mentioned before, but, we are solemnly assured by our overseas culinary correspondent dining on such morsels, there's nothing to fear....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...food-risk-list
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 12:33
  #25234 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
The serious bit.

The more you read, the more disturbing American food standards become and here the law of unintended consequences may well apply....notably our securing a deal as a result of Brexit with a very tangible degradation in our food consumption standards as a result.
Look on the bright side. Once you free yourselves from the shackles of EU place of origin regulations you will be able to import things such as feta cheese, mozzarella cheese, Champagne, parma ham (to name a few) from all over the world.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 12:41
  #25235 (permalink)  
 
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If the U.K. government sticks to its decision to leave, Brexit will become a reality with all its negative consequences in March next year, unless there is a change of heart among our British friends,Ē Tusk, who chairs meetings of EU government heads, told the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France on Tuesday
A welcome sign that the EU have realised we are serious, and if they push for the 'punishment ' option, we go without any contribution to their committed black hole budget.

I rarely visit this thread, the main participants seem still to be shouting their committed views at each other, and oblivious to any logical discussion. Personally, I still hold to the view that in the medium (possibly short) term, the EU is destined to fail, and the cracks are beginning to widen. Eastern Europe being ordered to toe the German line, or else? Mediterranean countries unemployment still rising, and a cavalier attitude to paying taxes? Why lock ourselves into that mess?

Now I'll go away for a month, and then see if anything has changed (but I doubt it).
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 13:02
  #25236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
A welcome sign that the EU have realised we are serious, and if they push for the 'punishment ' option, we go without any contribution to their committed black hole budget.

I rarely visit this thread, the main participants seem still to be shouting their committed views at each other, and oblivious to any logical discussion. Personally, I still hold to the view that in the medium (possibly short) term, the EU is destined to fail, and the cracks are beginning to widen. Eastern Europe being ordered to toe the German line, or else? Mediterranean countries unemployment still rising, and a cavalier attitude to paying taxes? Why lock ourselves into that mess?

Now I'll go away for a month, and then see if anything has changed (but I doubt it).
Germany does not run the EU and can't "force" eastern European countries to do anything. Unemployment in the southern European EU states is actually falling, though youth unemployment remains stubbornly high. Growth rates in most of these countries are higher than in UK.

Brexiteers have been forecasting the fall of the EU (and the Euro) for donkey's years - the latter is now trading at over Ä1.22 against the dollar, and appears to be in rude health. The former likewise.

It really is a shame as "Retired F4" has said on numerous occasions, that the British, by and large, know so little about the EU and how it really works - just what the anti EU propaganda rags tell them, and of course, if something is said often enough, it eventually get believed. Ask The Donald about that one.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 13:09
  #25237 (permalink)  
 
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Fitter 11

The EU are far from being on the brink having posted their best trading results ever
The same cannot be said for us

Farage has opened a can of worms in bringing the topic of another referendum tothe fore
It was almost like brainwashing that a marginally won vote means brexit is inevitable regardless of an economic disaster

Democracy as David Davis said in 2009 is all about the ability to change your mind
Not so to committed brexiteers who are shit scared of another vote and hence will give every reason but the real reason why not

Real reason they don’t think they stand a chance in hell of winning a second vote
It was a one off on the tide of populism which has ebbed

Brexit was a FAD ( check in dictionary ) based on a wave of populism to hit here and the USA but a short lived obsession
Another reason why the will of the people should be confirmed


Suggest you read this released today


https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-they-re-wrong

Last edited by Pace; 16th Jan 2018 at 13:21.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 13:56
  #25238 (permalink)  
 
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Said by Tusk and only too true unless your an ideological brexiteer
Right out of the EU playbook Im afraid and you are falling for it.

Democracy as David Davis said in 2009 is all about the ability to change your mind
Not so to committed brexiteers who are shit scared of another vote and hence will give every reason but the real reason why not

Real reason they donít think they stand a chance in hell of winning a second vote
It was a one off on the tide of populism which has ebbed

Brexit was a FAD ( check in dictionary ) based on a wave of populism to hit here and the USA but a short lived obsession
Another reason why the will of the people should be confirmed
If thats the case then once we have left I am sure the newly formed PACE party will have a mandate to take us fully into the EU in less than 5 years. Now thats democracy
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 14:39
  #25239 (permalink)  
 
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Rob

Brexit will be determined by the EU and what they are prepared to give way on
It has recently come clear that a no deal WTO exit isnít really an option with the government
Where to from here
Norway wonít have us treated in a special way and 27 countries have to approve

Our best bet is to hold Macron to his word and have an experimental layer where access is allowed and where changes can be made or remade in collaboration with the EU
Experimental means no precedence set
The Swiss model was also experimental which then became accepted

They are stuck offering us anything which will threaten their structure

Sorry forming a rejoin party wonít work as it would cost us to rejoin

We either change approach and expectations or call it off before March 2019
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 14:59
  #25240 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Sorry forming a rejoin party wonít work as it would cost us to rejoin

We either change approach and expectations or call it off before March 2019
If some of the camp fear predictions come to fruition you may be eligible to join in a decade or so as a net beneficiary. Provided you can get your debt and inflation under control.
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