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cost of electric motoring increasing

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cost of electric motoring increasing

Old 11th Jul 2016, 20:36
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cost of electric motoring increasing

Ecotricity has announced the start of charging (money) for the use of it's motor charging (electricity) points. The cost proposed at the moment is 6 per up to 30 mins of plug in time. This is angering the folk that bought Hybrid vehicles, some of which only travel 25 to 30 miles on their batteries between top ups. This equates to more than 20 pence per mile and puts the electrical motoring at a higher cost than the fossil fuel motoring in the same vehicle.

I would be a bit brassed off if I had been persuaded to buy a hybrid, at serious money, on the premise that electricity for it was going to be cheap/free.

Just as a comparison, I estimate that my Sub Legacy has burned about 20K of petrol over it's life so far (125K miles) since 2000. If I had coughed up for this at the start (I assume the "fuel" cost of the Teslas is factored into the purchase price) there would have been a sizeable cost in loss of interest to be added to the running cost of the car. How many Tesla owners have considered this hidden cost I wonder?
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 20:54
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Anybody who has purchased a hybrid/electric car thinking the subsidies will continue is a mug!
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 21:27
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My boss has just part exed his Skoda Fabia for a two year old Nissan leaf, reckons that the battery has dropped to 95% of its original capacity and still at the moment has a range of 100 miles on a full charge. According to the costings he's worked out it costs him fifty pence a day to do the sixty mile round trip to work, using domestic rate electricity slow charging over night. According to him a thirty minute fast charge will put 85% to 90% into the battery from flat. The equivalent amount of diesel into his Skoda Fabia would have been between thirty-five and forty quid. Also if you swap to buying your domestic gas and lecky from Ecotricty fast charging will remain free.

There are also a couple of firms that have now been licensed by Nissan to replace individual cells in the battery which means you don't have to lash out for a full set if the battery starts dropping off. As he said when asked it's the same chance you take with an oil pump or cam belt failure on an IC engine.
He also said it surprised the hell out of the bloke that used to regularly tailgate him up the hill on the last stretch into work as it apparently accelerates a lot faster that the Skoda, however that does use a lot of the charge and knocks spots out of the front tyres!
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 21:32
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Originally Posted by Windy Militant View Post
According to the costings he's worked out it costs him fifty pence a day to do the sixty mile round trip to work, using domestic rate electricity slow charging over night. The equivalent amount of diesel into his Skoda Fabia would have been between thirty-five and forty quid.
Something wrong there, Shirley?

My car (a diesel) would do 100 miles on 10 of fuel - no more than 20 in stop start city traffic.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 21:45
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Sorry he was comparing the capacity. To fill the Skoda to 80% full would indeed give you more range but a fiver to do a hundred miles or so is still not bad and stop start traffic doesn't affect the charge depletion as much as it affects IC engines.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 21:46
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I would be a bit brassed off if I had been persuaded to buy a hybrid, at serious money, on the premise that electricity for it was going to be cheap/free.
However, the actual electricity was never cheap, or free. Until now it was just paid for by someone else.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 22:50
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To be fair to Ecotricity, they always said that they'd levy a fee at some point in the future. They just didn't say when or how much.

For us Tesla drivers, the new fee will be a bit of a pain. For one thing, it'll put more demand on Superchargers as so many of us have become so used to having "free" juice. The Ecotricity "electric highway" was a useful adjunct as they have so many more chargers in their network (in the UK) than Tesla.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 23:36
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I drove my first Hybrid last year out in BC. As a Rental Car they are GREAT I threw it around and still averaged close to 65 mpg. From 0-30mph it could surprise much faster cars away from the lights with its batteries and petrol motor going full-chat.

The crux is that owners of such vehicles are getting hammered with new sets of batteries for up to $10k after 5-6 years. Taxi drivers in Winnipeg tell me their battery life is even less and range is minimal in -40c Winter driving.

Until an effective way of leasing batteries is found, it will only be a niche market...

By which time Hydrogen-power will hopefully have arrived.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 23:38
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(I assume the "fuel" cost of the Teslas is factored into the purchase price) there would have been a sizeable cost in loss of interest to be added to the running cost of the car. How many Tesla owners have considered this hidden cost I wonder?
I can answer that one, though my situation is not necessarily representative of many other Tesla owners.

I have a bit of land and have installed a very large pv array as well as a slightly wonky wind turbine. I often have far more power than I can possibly use, so for home charging my power is effectively "free". Of course the capex was large, but the bonkers FIT subsidy took care of that and I'm well into profit.

The capex on my Model S was also huge, but the running costs over the next seven years will be tiny. Tyres and insurance are expensive, but all services in the first eight years are already paid for. Future inflation costs are pretty much balanced out by loss of interest on the up-front payment. I took a painful hit last year when I bought the car, but I love the freedom from bills in day to day usage.

It's the opposite of what many people do by saddling themselves with perma-debt on hire purchase and leasing deals. Just a different way of thinking.

With almost a year now, I've no regrets.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 23:49
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Hydrogen power is interesting and I certainly wouldn't write it off, but it has some intrinsic problems which may turn out to be insurmountable.

It's a bugger to store in a car. If you 'make' your hydrogen in a 'green' manner, ie by electrolysing water which green power then you run into the fundamental physical problem that electrolysis is hugely inefficient in terms of energy use.

The oil industry is pushing for it, but that's only because it's a way for them to sell even more oil & gas. The dinosaur car companies love it because it means selling more piston bangers and all the crap that goes with that 19th century technology.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 00:09
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I read today about a proposal to convert methane to hydrogen (and CO2) for use in domestic dwellings:-
UK homes could be heated by hydrogen.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 00:44
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That's an interesting project, Cptn.

Not scalable to cars, though.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 04:09
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RE: Hydrogen - I thought fuel cells were the destination on the way to the prime mover (electric motor) rather than going directly to the old bang bang types.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 07:19
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Originally Posted by vapilot2004 View Post
RE: Hydrogen - I thought fuel cells were the destination on the way to the prime mover (electric motor) rather than going directly to the old bang bang types.
The point is that you can do either - initially you can use the proven, mature technology of the internal combustion engine without the attendant emissions issues, and then you can migrate to fuel cells if a solution to the scarce materials problems can be found.

But hydrogen (like most electricity) is currently not an energy source, but just an energy storage & transport medium. If you're electrolysing water to get it then the energy source is that used to do the electrolysis, which might even be a fossil-fuel fired power station!

With hydrogen this MAY change if we can mature the "biohydrogen" technology (GM aquatic organisms that produce hydrogen using solar energy), but we're quit a long way off that as yet.

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Old 12th Jul 2016, 09:40
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Interesting PDR, and that first paragraph certainly puts a logical deployment sequence in perspective. Thank you.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 11:56
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Drug dealer modus operandi.

Give it out free until you are addicted, then ramp the price up.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 16:58
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That is very exactly the Ecotricity business model for their "free" chargers. Get 'em to swallow the hook deep, then yank hard and long to reel the suckers in.

Tesla Motors promise us that our Superchargers will always be free, but I know that the situation is not sustainable once they are producing half a million cars a year. My guess is that they will simply let demand for Superchargers outstrip supply and then all those of Model 3 owners will get used to having to pay to recharge at third party rechargers. It's a matter of moulding people's perceptions.
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 17:12
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Or "fraudulent misrepresentation", as the pedantically-inclined might call it.

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Old 12th Jul 2016, 18:18
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I'm peripherally involved in the next stage to this which may prove to be an interesting development!
hydrogen-breakthrough-could-be-a-game-changer-for-the-future-of-car-fuels
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Old 12th Jul 2016, 18:19
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I took a painful hit last year when I bought the car, but I love the freedom from bills in day to day usage.
Our Civic costs about $20 a week for gas, and $100 a year for servicing. And you can buy three of them for the cost of the Tesla.
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