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The EU - in or out? This is the hamsterwheel.

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The EU - in or out? This is the hamsterwheel.

Old 11th Feb 2016, 14:41
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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No, please don't elaborate.
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Old 11th Feb 2016, 15:23
  #502 (permalink)  
 
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Wiggy,

I am in complete agreement. Dump the CAP and the CFP
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Old 11th Feb 2016, 18:14
  #503 (permalink)  
 
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Widger,

Agreed,

This side of the water it now looks like even that nice Mr Valls has had to (appear to ) side with the farmers...

Paris ups anti-Brussels rhetoric over farming row | EurActiv

From the piece: "Since Irish Commissioner Phil Hogan took over the agriculture portfolio in November 2014, France has seen its influence in this area severely reduced. "In fact, DG AGRI is there to respond to Anglo-Saxon interests, and is most attentive to Ireland," said a member of a French agricultural organisation."


Paris v the EU, 'cos the EU is responding to the Anglo-Saxons.... who would have thought it?

Last edited by wiggy; 11th Feb 2016 at 18:28.
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Old 11th Feb 2016, 20:44
  #504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by Widger View Post
If we left the EU, we would then be free to impose restrictions on imports. Anything that does not meet UK welfare standards could be banned from import, which would at a stroke cut down on all that Danish and Dutch Bacon, all the milk that we import to appease greedy supermarkets who wont give a fair price and of course, we could protect our Cane Sugar refiners, Tate and Lyle. The EU allows others to undercut our farmers through lower welfare standards.
Lower Farming Welfare Standards across EU ................. you are having a laugh.

BSE ......................caused by using diseased carcasses of dead animals as feed and allowing temperature to be reduced in its rendering to save money

Foot and Mouth................ no controls in any way shape or form to feeding of waste food products to pigs

Swine Fever.................. continual outbreaks

Avian Flu................... year after year chicken farms in Uk getting hit and culling birds.

Hedgerows ............. complete elimination in many agricultural areas to have bigger fields.

Horse Meat in ready meals............

Sudan Red................. Carcinogenic Food dye widely used in UK until it became public in 2005 and was withdrawn

And as for Milk...................
National Dairy companys have reduced the price to less than 20p per litre in certain areas.

UK in favour of abolising Milk Quota but its foreign companys producing that are able to increase production because they have Dairy companys who are part of the supply chain.

Aspartame ................. widely used in UK Soft drinks, completely unacceptable across Europe.

The oft touted claim by UK Farming interests ever time there is a scandal is that "we are ok but its EU Jonny Foreigner who is bad" doesn't really stand up to scruitiny in last 30 years.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 06:04
  #505 (permalink)  
 
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racedo

I think TBH the farmers across the EU are all as bad/good as each other, it's just that in some parts of the EU it is much easier for things to be hidden, with some officials more willing to turn a blind eye. There's been an out break of Bird Flu this winter to the west of "chez nous" that's still not resolved.

That said my French farming neighbour has been grumbling for years about having to comply with EU animal husbandry standards ....

BTW.....

Horse Meat in ready meals............

France - France makes 21 arrests in latest horsemeat scandal - France 24

and
Aspartame ................. widely used in UK Soft drinks, completely unacceptable across Europe.
?? I'd better take that big bottle of diet coke I bought last week back to our local LeClerc supermarket then...it's certainly got Aspartame as a listed ingredient.

Aspartame | European Food Safety Authority
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 07:45
  #506 (permalink)  
 
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Lower Farming Welfare Standards across EU ................. you are having a laugh.
Implementation of the 2013 EU Pig Welfare Regulations.
Compliance according to the EU Commission

100%: Austria, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden, United Kingdom
99%: Czech Republic, Hungary, Italy
98%: Finland, Netherlands
96%: Spain
95%: Slovenia
94%: Denmark
93%: Poland
90%: Malta
89%: Belgium
82%: Greece, Ireland
73%: Germany
72%: France
63%: Cyprus
58%: Portugal

Taken from
Implementation of new EU pig welfare regulations?
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 08:45
  #507 (permalink)  
 
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Why do you think there should even be departure negotiations?

If you break the treaty you are effectively out of the EU, end of.
How else do you think the EU institutions are going to run, if the 2nd largest contributor pulls the plug on funding overnight.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 09:41
  #508 (permalink)  
 
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The concept that a vote to leave results in an instant consequence of being "out of europe" is just nonsense.

Membership is tied up in legal treaties. In anyone's language these don't just disappear overnight. The vote to leave would be a signal, and a starting gun, to commence a negotiation to leave those treaties. It is a legal process, and I think even the EU understands that.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 10:18
  #509 (permalink)  
 
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The concept that a vote to leave results in an instant consequence of being "out of europe" is just nonsense.
Of course it's nonsense, and I don't believe anyone said that.

A vote to leave would (presumably) be an instruction to the government to arrange a break from Europe. That would mean terminating the relevant treaties.
The point is that once a formal decision to leave is made, there is no obligation upon the rest of Europe - many of whom will be less than happy at the decision - to 'negotiate' the departure in a friendly way to the UK's benefit.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 10:29
  #510 (permalink)  
 
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And there will be no obligation on the part of the UK to continue to pay £33m a day to subsidise the EU. How that ramps down is also open to negotiation. They could cut off their nose but I doubt it.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 11:57
  #511 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed. It would be a very unpleasant time with a lot of grievances and ill-will left in its trail.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 12:20
  #512 (permalink)  
 
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Well in post 500 you seemed to be suggesting that if we broke the treaty (presumably by voting to leave) that we are effectively out of the EU and they have no need to negotiate with us.

What I think you meant is that they have no incentive to make concessions to us in the negotiation.

That's true, but then neither do we, but we are all grown up enough to know that we have to trade with each other afterwards. Accords will be reached.

The fact that a negotiation will be tough is no reason not to have it. It's like me staying in a marriage full of mutual hatred because I don't want to discuss who gets the house.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 12:22
  #513 (permalink)  
 
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The point is that once a formal decision to leave is made, there is no obligation upon the rest of Europe - many of whom will be less than happy at the decision - to 'negotiate' the departure in a friendly way to the UK's benefit.
Why would that be, after all they need to keep us as a trading partner because of the trading surplus they currently enjoy and I would presume would like to continue.

Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty sets out the timescale and procedure for leaving and the deadline is a 2 year maximum.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 12:44
  #514 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed. It would be a very unpleasant time with a lot of grievances and ill-will left in its trail.
A bit like the EU enacting the Lisbon treaty after all the referendums that said No.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 14:56
  #515 (permalink)  
 
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A West Midlands local newspaper, with a wide circulation, has published it's online poll, on EU exit, which shows that 92% want OUT and 8% want IN.
These percentages would, perhaps, not have been out of place in certain National newspapers but I'm surprised to see them in a provincial one with a good cross-section of readers.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 16:49
  #516 (permalink)  
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Well this could be fun. Remember the result when the Grauniad organised Operation Clark County to persuade Americans how to vote in the 2004 election?

Barack Obama plans EU referendum intervention

US president plans ‘big reach out’ in attempt to persuade British voters to stay in the EU, as fears grow in Washington that Cameron could lose
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 16:57
  #517 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by handsfree View Post
Implementation of the 2013 EU Pig Welfare Regulations.
Compliance according to the EU Commission

100%: Austria, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden, United Kingdom
99%: Czech Republic, Hungary, Italy
98%: Finland, Netherlands
96%: Spain
95%: Slovenia
94%: Denmark
93%: Poland
90%: Malta
89%: Belgium
82%: Greece, Ireland
73%: Germany
72%: France
63%: Cyprus
58%: Portugal

Taken from
Implementation of new EU pig welfare regulations?
So people now believe the EU because it says something good.

The list provided by me is just a snap shot of UK farming and contrasts quite nicely with all the claims (from UK) that UK Farming is best in Europe.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 16:59
  #518 (permalink)  
 
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Has Cameron asked him to help?
This should be funny, a lame-duck president who I expect has little respect from British voters in the first place, putting in his two cents worth.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 17:08
  #519 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rob Courtney View Post
Why would that be, after all they need to keep us as a trading partner because of the trading surplus they currently enjoy and I would presume would like to continue.

Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty sets out the timescale and procedure for leaving and the deadline is a 2 year maximum.
Where is UK going to get it from as cheaply if not from within EU ?

Uk has little or no manufacturing base anymore and relies on City of London to counteract its balance of payments deficits.
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Old 12th Feb 2016, 18:04
  #520 (permalink)  
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The Myth of UK Manufacturing Decline
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