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Old 27th Feb 2017, 16:58   #1201 (permalink)
 
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Orac: You didn't really think those two replies through did you:
Per the definition of Echo Chamber Effect, so kindly supplied by you ("like-minded people then repeat, overhear, and repeat again"), I think a count of those on one side or the other in this discussion would probably show it is I in the minority and the likes of yourself in the "like-minded people" category.
I love your grasp of maths (OK, sums, if you like). I said the Rotherham savages were "mainly British". You contested this, using a quote from the Rotherham blog which says 4 were born in Pakistan and had acquired British citizenship. Now, here's where the tricky stuff (maths) comes in. There was a total of 9 involved and 4 of the 9 had acquired British citizenship. 9 take away 4 leaves 5! 5 is greater than 4 so it must be fair to say not only were they "mainly British" but "Native British".
Heartymeatballs: You really are trying your best to confirm my earlier opinion of you, when you kick off with "Well. If you want to talk percentages". It was yourself that came up with that stupid argument.
And then you finish off with "In essence migrants committing crimes....". What in this country (or Germany if you prefer) is the ratio of non-immigrants committing crimes to non-immigrants reporting hate crimes toward them? I genuinely don't know and can't be bothered trying to find out, but I have no doubt you will know the figure. And I will bet it exceeds 78.
Peter-RB: I agree with pretty much all you say there.
meadowrun: You are right in what you say about failing to instill what we consider core values etc. That's a conundrum the politicians should be sorting out, or, dare I say it, "earning their keep"! And the latter half of your post is spot on.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 17:11   #1202 (permalink)
 
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I'm saying KelvinD, as with most lefties you're very selective with your reporting. You're very quick to jump on anything that fits the narrative of the migrants being victims. Indeed, some are, however way more of them are committing crime than are victims of crime.

What about the Germans who are robbed by migrants, raped by them or perhaps the Swedes who are murdered by them? Constantly playing the victim is a founding pillar of the left along with with being professionally offended and this mass hysteria over a small portion of migrants suffering abuse is being frantically spread by the left as some kind of proof that regular Germans who raise concerns are savage racists, that fascism is alive and that your cause is justified.

In Sweden, 80% of all sex attacks reported in their bath houses and saunas are committed by newly arrived migrants. Let me guess though, it wasn't migrants but it was the 'Nordic drinking culture' that was to blame.

I should imagine that the ratio of natives to non natives committing crime will be significantly higher given that a vast majority of Brits (despite a recent claim here that London was 90% immigrant, how we laughed) are not immigrants.

The fact of the matter is that there are 78 times more crimes committed by migrants in Germany than there are hate crimes against them.

The UK has not indulged in mass social engineering and has not invited one milllion unknowns to live here like the Swedes and Germans have so if imagine crime stats aren't easily comparable.

Now, how's about answering the question posed in #1201?

Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 27th Feb 2017 at 17:33.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 17:50   #1203 (permalink)
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KelvinD, your maths are a bit out, I make that 19, at the latest count.

Rotherham child abuse: Eight jailed for rape and sexual abuse of three girls - BBC News

Eight men who sexually abused three teenage girls in Rotherham between 1999 and 2003 have been jailed. The men are Sageer Hussain, Ishtiaq Khaliq, Waleed Ali, Masoued Malik, Asif Ali, Naeem Rafiq, Basharat Hussain and Mohammed Whied.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/276960...-akbar-jailed/

Six men were given sentences between 10 years and 20 after the court heard details of how two young girls were groomed and sexually abused in the South Yorkshire town between 1999 and 2001........ Brothers Basharat Dad, 32, and Nasar Dad, 36, of both of Rotherham, and Tayab Dad, 34, of Sheffield, were jailed on Tuesday for sex offences along with Matloob Hussain, 41, of Rotherham, Mohammed Sadiq, 40, of Rotherham, and Amjad Ali, of Worksop, Nottinghamshire. Basharat Dad was jailed for 20 years, Nasar Dad was given 14 years and six months, Tayab Dad was given 10 years, Hussain was given 13 years, Sadiq was given 13 years and Ali was given 11 years.

Rotherham abuse scandal: Five jailed for systematic sexual exploitation of 15 girls

Five people have been jailed for multiple sex crimes against young girls in Rotherham, the northern English town that hit the headlines two years ago when it was revealed that as many as 1400 children had been abused by gangs.......

Brothers Basharat, Arshid and Bannaras Hussain were handed jail sentences of 25 years, 35 years and 19 years respectively. Their uncle Qurban Ali was jailed for 10 years.

Karen MacGregor, who offered young women accommodation at her home and then expected them to have sex with men, was jailed for 13 years. A sixth defendant, Shelley Davies, will serve an 18-month suspended jail term.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 02:21   #1204 (permalink)
 
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I think Kelvin will agree they are all good rock solid British names of impeccable pedigree ORAC, leaving aside the women.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 08:09   #1205 (permalink)
 
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Well, cards on the table. I was a Labour Party member until the Corbyn coup. A District Councillor for fourteen years and worked for the party at every election since 1974.

My view is that Islam represents the biggest threat to liberal democracy in eighty years. I am more than happy to see refugees of any hue given asylum, the red line for me is that religion. The Left really need to work out who their real enemies are.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 08:40   #1206 (permalink)
 
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Orac: I used the reference supplied by you which states they were part of a 9 strong gang. So the maths stands. It is no good deciding that you would try to find alternative sources in case they give numbers more favourable to your argument. (The Sun hardly qualifies as a valid source of news anyway!).
Megan: I will file your response under "stupid".
Effluent man: I too became very disillusioned with the Labour Party post Corbyn. I had already been disillusioned for some time, when the party elected a closet Tory as the leader, replacing him with another Tory when he stepped down.
I sort of agree with your comment about risks to the country and Islamic nutters. It is perhaps similar to the public's view of the Irish when they were the biggest threat.
Regardless of all the nonsense in the previous posts about Islam, British or non-British born persons etc, there is no way it can justify attacks on innocent people who have already hit rock bottom. And that was my original point.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 08:56   #1207 (permalink)
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No, you are the one who made the totally unsubstantiated and ludicrous suggestion that the other 5 were "native British". Only those convicted were named, the most logical deduction is that the remainder were from the same background. The logical deduction from your hypothesis is a total lack of justice where the white defendants were freed because of their race. Something, which if true, would have led to race rights and an explosion of outrage in the Grauniad reading metropolitan elite.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 09:03   #1208 (permalink)
 
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KelvinD Answer to 1201 please?
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 15:17   #1209 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Orac: I used the reference supplied by you which states they were part of a 9 strong gang. So the maths stands. It is no good deciding that you would try to find alternative sources in case they give numbers more favourable to your argument. (The Sun hardly qualifies as a valid source of news anyway!).
Megan: I will file your response under "stupid".
Effluent man: I too became very disillusioned with the Labour Party post Corbyn. I had already been disillusioned for some time, when the party elected a closet Tory as the leader, replacing him with another Tory when he stepped down.
I sort of agree with your comment about risks to the country and Islamic nutters. It is perhaps similar to the public's view of the Irish when they were the biggest threat.
Regardless of all the nonsense in the previous posts about Islam, British or non-British born persons etc, there is no way it can justify attacks on innocent people who have already hit rock bottom. And that was my original point.
I never perceived the Irish as a threat. They were people who had a grievance, in my view quite reasonably so, and there was a solution to that as we have seen since the Good Friday Agreement.

Islam may well have a grievance too, but the solution to that, if indeed it exists at all, would involve giving into their warped view of the world. Even then they would fight amongst themselves.

I am not entirely sure who your Tory and closet Tory remarks relate too. I would just point out that The Tories were kept away from the levers of power for thirteen years and that in itself is sufficient to commend those who managed to do that.
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 06:48   #1210 (permalink)
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Austria plans to stop giving food and shelter to rejected asylum seekers ? POLITICO

Austrian authorities would not have to provide food and accommodation to migrants who are denied asylum and refuse to leave the country, under a draft law approved by the government Tuesday.

ďThe first thing is basically that they donít get anything from the Austrian state if they donít have the right to stay here. Is that so hard to understand?Ē Interior Minister Wolfgang Sobotka said, according to Reuters..........
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 07:24   #1211 (permalink)
 
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Sounds like common sense and a bit of a breeze of fresh air. You're a rejected asylum seeker from a safe country? - you're not a refugee - go back and get in the line. Try it legally.
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 08:16   #1212 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I think Kelvin will agree they are all good rock solid British names of impeccable pedigree ORAC, leaving aside the women.
So what counts as a good British name? Smith? Taylor? Anderson? Andersson?
Where's the tipping point? I have a British-sounding name but am not a UK citizen. Can I be trusted?
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 08:56   #1213 (permalink)
 
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Effluent Man: Maybe you personally never perceived the Irish as a threat. Being in the Army at the time it all kicked off, I had many Irish mates. But the public in general did become somewhat resentful and fearful of the Irish as the bombing campaign wore on. A section of Ulster society at the time did indeed have a grievance; the outrageous anti-Catholic bias in Ulster was reminiscent of something medieval and the Army was sent in to protect the Catholics. At first, the Catholic population hailed them as heroes but soon turned on them, as a result of the agitation of the likes of Adams and McGuiness et al. I would question the Good Friday agreement's benefits. It seems it is still arousing resentment and anger at the way it is being administered.
The 2 Labour neo-Tory politicians? Blair and Brown.
Blair almost came to run for the Tories before he decided on Labour. He didn't care which party he belonged to, he just wanted to get some glory, riding on the back of whichever party would have him. His "socialist" qualifications wouldn't stand up to scrutiny now. To give him his due though, he was a clever politician who knew exactly how to sway the electorate, recognising the buttons to push etc and I was quite pleased when he first came to power. We all know how his "reign" turned out though.
And Gordon Brown was openly an admirer of Thatcher. He ensured her portrait had pride of place on the No. 10 staircase and he admitted in TV interviews his admiration. He was another I initially had high hopes for but rapidly lost the plot.
I remember well when Wilson lost the election in 1970. Having just left the Army, I was working at the Ford factory at Halewood, building Escorts. Working a night shift on election day, I saw grown men cry as the news of Heath's victory came through. During a break, I asked quite a few of them who they had voted for. And the answer, almost unanimously, was "well, it was so obvious Labour was going to win, I didn't bother"!
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 15:55   #1214 (permalink)
 
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Well Kelvin, they may have meant that they lived in Huyton which indeed would have meant that it made no difference. When I was first asked to stand as a councillor in 1986 our group leader was a 26 year old. In our discussions we agreed that the Scandinavian model of Social Democracy combined with long periods in power offered the best chance of social reforms.

I think that we all now know exactly where appointing a far left leader gets us. It loses seats that Labour has held within living memory.
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 15:59   #1215 (permalink)
 
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Failing to answer uncomfortable questions doesn't mean that the problem does not exist Kelvin.
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Old 1st Mar 2017, 21:53   #1216 (permalink)
 
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Effluent Man: Hear hear re the far left leader. I could have picked a dozen more suitable to the job than Corbyn. My favourite was Andy Burnham but there we go!
Heartybollocks: To which questions do you refer?
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Old 2nd Mar 2017, 05:24   #1217 (permalink)
 
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The one posted in 1201, the one which I reminded you about in 1209.

Heartybollocks? That's right, anything that doesn't fit with your leftist self loathing views must be bollocks.
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Old 2nd Mar 2017, 06:49   #1218 (permalink)
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Re the pictures of the Gang of Asian men Jailed,,, I bet the Colour drained a little from the faces when the realisation of time being in the poky lodged in their tiny insulated cells.

Still its Allah's will..bet they think that through many time in the next tens of years or so
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Old 2nd Mar 2017, 20:09   #1219 (permalink)
 
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Hearty etc:: Did you seriously expect a sensible answer to that "question"? To me it looked more rhetorical than sensible and I couldn't profess to have a clue if you were really looking for an answer. So, I shall pass it back to you for our enlightenment. (It would be helpful if you would include sources with the answer).
I see you have resorted to your standard "I know, I shall insult him with some made-up terms" tactic. What on earth makes you think I loathe myself? I think I am a fairly reasonable bloke and get on with myself pretty well.
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Old 2nd Mar 2017, 20:16   #1220 (permalink)
 
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For self loathing read anti British/English. Very a la mode with you lefties.

Brussels, Nice. Body count 120+. Both carried out by migrants.

How many migrants have been murdered by non migrants and specifically how many have been murdered simply for being a migrant?

The irony of your post is quite exquisite.
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