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A Sickness in US Society

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A Sickness in US Society

Old 31st Aug 2015, 18:21
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country...
Do you want an American to admit it's their culture and availability of guns?
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 18:58
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country...
They like it that way, simples.

(If they didn't they could and would change it, given that they claim to be a democracy.)
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 19:01
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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only today a man with a gun was shot dead by armed police in London.
Weird that, you're not allowed to carry a gun around like that in the UK....

Our supposedly highly trained armed police are about as good at shooting people in questionable circumstances as the U.S. Police.
I'm genuinely curious as to what this comment means. Man has gun. Man makes threats to kill. Man is shot dead. Seems like mission accomplished.

(Don't worry about riots etc, shot man was white)
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 22:37
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Contribution made by text message to tv debate last night;

"Americans like guns more than Americans"


Mickjoebill
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 22:58
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country...
It's not really our problem that you have phrased your comment such that no reply would suit you.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 22:58
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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armed police in London
We went to London on Sunday, and saw four armed police in a single day - which is four more guns than I'd seen in most previous years, if not, perhaps, decades, of my life

(I rarely, if ever, go to London voluntarily at my own expense in my own time, as the place is essentially uncivilised. But I thought that one visit to Carnival in a lifetime was called for. The guns weren't at Carnival, they were in railway stations, perhaps not surprising following recent events on the continent. I hope we will one day return to not needing such things.)
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 00:33
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country...
Hows this for you then.

Americas specific social circumstances convolved with the readily available supply of firearms, means there are more guns deaths than other developed countries. But you no that hey?

I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many people keep trying to have a dig at the Americans knowing the inevitable response. What are they hoping for?

Says more about the poster than the intended target.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 01:22
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham
It's not really our problem that you have phrased your comment such that no reply would suit you.
That's a little presumptive. How do you come to that conclusion?

Why don't you take a shot (pardon the pun) at it?

Originally Posted by rh200
Hows this for you then.

Americas specific social circumstances convolved with the readily available supply of firearms, means there are more guns deaths than other developed countries. But you no sic that hey?
Going by the posts on this thread, no, I wouldn't "no" that. The readily available supply of guns keeps crime down, apparently. Places with more guns are safer, and places with gun restrictions are less safe, apparently. So there goes that argument.

What 'specific social circumstances' do you speak of?

You seem to know a lot about America for an Australian tradie with a PhD. Perhaps you should move there?
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 01:40
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country...
As far as being a more highly evolved - frankly if the rate we kill each other is a measure of that I am coming to the conclusion that there must be some difference in that respect between the rest of the developed world and the USA
Hempy, BCG, I posted a graphic of murder rates by country here, where it is shown the US is not among the worst of developed nations. A few decades ago, that wasn't the case.


Castle Doctrine States: Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

Stand Your Ground States:Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucy, Louisiana , Montana, Nevada, New Hampshsire, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 01:58
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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vapilot. I tried to follow your link but all it seems
to do is send me back to the top of the page
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 03:24
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why that is, Hempy. Page 5 of this thread, post #97 is what I was attempting to link.

Link to the original graphic (wikipedia - with sources for the underlying data) The key is below under "Summary".
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 03:45
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Quite honestly, while the rates of senseless murders here in the States is certainly too high, the U.S is far, far from the top of the list of most dangerous countries. We're just "average". Also true, murder and violent crime rates are trending downward for 20 years or more. What's changed is the 24hr cable news cycle. Murders most people would have never heard about 30 years ago on one of their 3 network TV stations are now covered in detail on dozens of channels and hundreds of other internet media outlets.

I own a dozen or more hand and long guns. All except one shotgun I purchased decades ago and keep in a safe at home. I don't carry a handgun, and don't feel the slightest need to do so. I shoot the occasional pest or varmint, I do live in the country. I have no use for the NRA just as I have no use for extremists of any type. I occasionally handload my own pistol and high-power rifle ammo, but rarely shoot any more, there's no good range close by. I also fail to understand the recent military style weapon fetish so popular over here. I was always much more attracted to fine walnut and polished blued steel. I own a few "classic", not quite antique Colt and Winchester firearms from the 1950s that are far, far more attractive to look at than parkerized metal and plastic. They also function much more smoothly and have better triggers than any store-bought gun today. I plan to leave them to my kids, and trust they will continue to function as designed for another 50-100 years with reasonable care. Very few things left in this world that are built that well.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 04:34
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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vapilot. Thanks for the graphic. There are statistics and statistics. Here's another graphic



To wit my original post "I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country"
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:02
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
That's a little presumptive. How do you come to that conclusion?

Why don't you take a shot (pardon the pun) at it?
Hempy, you and your group have been given literally dozens of "explanations" in this and the many other threads that have gone on here over the years.

But when you specify that you are waiting for the "plausible" explanation, that tells me that you really will not accept any of them.

So be it. As I said, we here are not worried because you don't have an explanation.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:38
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Fair enough if that's your opinion. Seems that you've avoided the question a little though.

I've decided to take an open mind, that's why I'm open to being educated on the matter.

So, I'm asking our American friends...if, as stated many, many times before, the number of guns isn't the problem, and people having guns actually makes things safer, and regulation is dangerous, and all the other "explanations" 'you and your group' have given aren't the problem either, I ask again..Why are so many more people shot in the US than any other developed country? Taking in mind that 'criminals' aren't criminals until they perpetrate a crime.

Surely there has to be a plausible answer. All you've told me is that guns aren't the problem. I'm asking what is?
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:39
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Earlier in this thread I posted that 2/3 of those gun-deaths (inner city) are due to gang violence. Once we add in poverty, where inner city violence kills an enourmous amount of people compared to suburban and rural areas, and the failed war on drugs, that takes that red line of yours down to Swiss and Turkish level.

The above factors, coupled with a firearms market awash in cheap handguns is the answer as to why there are so many gun related deaths in the US, Hempy.

The problem with gun control is the genie's out of the bottle and there would be open revolt if the government started confiscating hand guns. The only way past this is bullet control.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:39
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Archie Bunker has a theory...

?rel=0" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen>
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:43
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Graphic

I was surprised to see that Thailand did not appear on the graphic then remembered it said in "The developed world".
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:53
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Re Archie Bunker..

If there are so many windows in the 'developed world' why is there not more defenestration?
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 06:01
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Hill View Post
Re Archie Bunker..

If there are so many windows in the 'developed world' why is there not more defenestration?
Because post #136 and #97.
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