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A Sickness in US Society

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A Sickness in US Society

Old 30th Aug 2015, 18:07
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
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Yes, sirree, there's a sickness, a plague actually, on the land--a plague of poorly educated, unsocialized, unparented narcissists who think society owes them everything. No failure or poverty is their fault and they play "victim" daily.

These losers (and no other term applies) take victimhood to mean they are empowered to use a gun as a way to "show 'em who I am". The Roanoke shooter was a a classic case, every previous employer called him a "professional victim".

Why the plague? A continuing failure to reward success and teach failure as an opportunity to learn and grow rather than as a "people hate me" moment. Heck, we have awards for showing up and graduation ceremonies from kindergarten.

GF
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Old 30th Aug 2015, 18:07
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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The tradition used to be a Cop Killer never ever made it to trial.
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Old 30th Aug 2015, 22:42
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks - as you say I do not know many countries. I first left Scotland in 1949 and in total I spent 40 years overseas - when I retired the most I could count that I had spent time in - some days,some weeks and some years was 68 countries. My last base before retirement was Tashkent,Uzbekistan. Just out of curiosity how many have you worked in? Exclude crew layovers.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 07:20
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Here's what you claim to know, Mr. Gallacher: "The rest of the developed world looks at this with total bemusement[,] that you have got yourself into this position where killings are regarded as the norm with absolutely nothing being done to reduce the numbers[.]"

I see that you claim to be well-traveled. You must also be a psychic, that you know how the "rest of the developed world" views the USA re: guns, namely "with total bemusement." Not even partial bemusement, just some of the population being bemused, but all of it, in all of the rest of the developed world! That is one hell of a lot of people being bemused, unless you just made that one up off the top of your head, mixing fact (the number of police deaths by gunfire in the USA) with fancy (your vision of how the rest of the developed world views the USA).

My question is not "Where have you been?" but "How can you know what you claim to know?"

As to "absolutely nothing being done," you seem to have missed various laws that have passed in the States, such as the so-called Brady Bill. It's not much, perhaps, but it's more than "absolutely nothing."

Here again you are mixing things: You have "spent time in" 68 countries, yet you are asking me how many countries I have "worked" in ... two different things.

I assume that most of those 68 countries you visited viewed you with "total bemusement," not understanding that the kilt is actually a sort of menswear, and the sporran as well, but never mind that now! (The bagpipes ... we shall not go there at all.) All of that is none of my business, just as the number of countries I have worked in is none of yours. I am not claiming this bogus insight you claim, so that your question is invalid.

I have spent some time in Scotland, weeks that seemed to count as months, but I don't suppose Scotland is part of "the developed world," so that doesn't count for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's try to be bit more relevant: Have you ever worked in the USA, this place you claim to know so much about? Now, I do not mean as a dishwasher in a Chinese restaurant, for instance, but in some registered occupation that brought you into regular contact with our indigenes so that you might have gained some insight into the "how and why" of gun ownership in the States? I have to guess that the answer to that question is "No, not actually, in strict point of fact," since you do not seem to have much knowledge of this subject you enjoy bloviating upon, aside from a few random numbers and some made-up stuff about "total bemusement."
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 08:10
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Awww, don't worry. Can Ye Who? has announced he will be prez in 2020. All will be better then.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 08:25
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks - I note your irrelevant ramblings with interest - you seem to be less interested in facts and more in personal insults. The relevance of kilts and bagpipes to the mass slaughter of US is a little doubtful to say the least. I will answer your question regarding my presence or not in the U.S. - I note also you did not wish to answer mine. I have worked for a U.S. Leasing company in Waco ,I have a U.S. Aircraft mechanics licence - gained after studying in Fort Worth, did a recurrent B747 training course in Charlotte N.C. I have also spent time preparing 747s in Marana, Arizona. A year was spent operating 747s between Miami and Buenos Aires for a start up Argentine company. I also spent a few months in New York operating a 747 between JFK and Bogota. I have also spent a little time in Bangor and L.A. Whilst in Marana I was taught to shoot handguns and also a full auto MP5K by a U.S. Marine corps scout sniper - enjoyed it very much and visited the Tucson range many times.Places like Waco,Tucson and Charlotte I liked very much - L.A.,N.Y., Miami - no thank you.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 09:02
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Well, then ....

Mr. Gallacher, how did you manage to spend so long in the States yet miss the fact of the Brady Bill, so that you think that "absolutely nothing is being done" about gun control there?

I had rather hoped that you had never been to the States. Instead, you seem to have lived and worked in many parts of my country while learning very little about it, aside from some stuff you still choose to make up. For instance, where is this "mass slaughter of US" (sic) taking place? I must have missed that. Is there much blood?

Kilts and bagpipes also fall into the general category of "atrocities," as it happens, so that they are somewhat relevant to this discussion: another fact you seem to have missed. Yes, all of the rest of the developed world views the Scots with total bemusement. Or not, as the case may be ....

It is interesting that you liked Waco, Texas, a place where one probably finds a lot of guns and gun enthusiasts (just my guess, that), yet you disliked New York City, a place with very strict gun laws (see the "Sullivan Act" if that is another thing you missed learning about). It would seem that the presence of guns and the people who carry them is not something that really bothers you, despite what you choose to write about that.

All in all, Mr. Gallacher, I think it's fair to say that you are writing stuff based on emotion rather than fact, given your sweeping assumption about how the "rest of the developed world" views the States, and your obvious ignorance of various gun control measures put into force in the States, small measures, but still more than "absolutely nothing."

You lived and worked in the States, enjoying our hospitality, yet here you are unloading upon the States in a rather half thought out, obviously ignorant way. Oh well, that must beat focusing upon your domestic problems.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 10:24
  #108 (permalink)  

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Old 31st Aug 2015, 11:12
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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I think you may find that Detroit is no longer part of the "developed world."
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 11:40
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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so that you think that "absolutely nothing is being done" about gun control
There might have been some teensy little fig-leaf twiddlings at the edges, in a failed attempt to placate the people who'd rather stay alive, but you only have to look at the news each and every day to see that it's failed. So doing something that has absolutely no effect could, it seems to me, reasonably be described as doing "absolutely nothing".
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 13:22
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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We had one failed airborne shoe bombing attempt and now everyone takes their shoes off for inspection at the airport.

What has changed since Sandyhook?
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 13:27
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks - the Brady Bill was enacted 21 years ago and 40% of gun sales are not covered by it. You do not consider 30,000 dead a year mass slaughter? Granted 20,000 of the dead are suicides it still leaves 10,000 homicides and accidents etc. When you have vigilante groups such as 'The Oath Takers' strutting around in public places armed with long guns and handguns it is only a matter of time before a situation goes out of control and people end up dead. The cost of all this massive - apart from the human cost a figure of 229 billion dollars is quoted by an American website as the cost of gun crime as a whole.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 14:42
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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It's in how you look at it, I suppose ....

"The Brady Bill, enacted 21 years ago, now puts more control on 60% of gun sales." Is that better?

Look, Mr. Gallacher, I think it's clear that you see yourself as a more highly evolved being, compared to the average Yank. To hand a Yank a pistol, even, well, he's very likely to go on a rampage; you, however, went target shooting with a military sub-machine gun, which is perfectly safe.

It was okay for you to have access to that full-automatic MP5 or whatever, but it is not okay for the average Yank to have similar access to even a semi-automatic pistol? Why is that? Please do not try to point out that "Guns don't kill people; people kill people," lest I take you for an NRA member, but that's about the only logical come-back I can think of to my question.

Look, we have both had our fun here, Mr. Gallacher, you with your pompous spouting off about we Yanks and our sick society, mass gun slaughter going on and nobody doing a thing about that; me trying to point out in the nicest possible way that you simply cannot be arguing from fact, telling us, for instance, how the rest of the developed world views us, as if you could possibly know that.

Given that you have been so kind as to tell us that you not only lived quite happily among the gun-toting but even went shooting yourself, I think we can conclude that you really, in strictly functional terms, are not greatly troubled by American gun culture. It might simply be that you feel that owning or using a gun there is okay for you and your Marine Scout-Sniper friend, but not okay for anyone else. I think that I understand your point of view perfectly.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 14:51
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
The cultural difference is that you seem quite happy to take the life of someone who is simply trying to steal your TV. Most of the rest of civilised society considers that 'right' a tad extreme.
Suggest you read up on the castle doctrine. You assume that it's all about a TV. It isn't. You don't have a right to break into my home. Don't offer me you excuses, you don't have that right. Period. Nor do you have a right to steal, nor can I read the mind of who is breaking into my house to guess at what the motive is. I am not, and should not, be required to be a mind reader. I am a citizen.

Stay the out if you aren't invited in. How hard is that for an allegedly intelligent person to understand?
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 15:13
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf,

Thanks for the 'suggestion, I just fail to see the relevance to be frank. I do however agree totally btw. Stay the out of my house as well.

That doesn't mean that if I do catch you in my house that I am entitled to kill you..in fact in my country and in most other western democracies, if I did kill you (with a gun/knife or anything other than my bare fists) I would go to prison. The police here enforce the law, with deadly force if required, not individuals...
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 15:29
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
Thanks for the 'suggestion, I just fail to see the relevance to be frank.
Your failure I can't help, I've explained it as simply as I can.
That doesn't mean that if I do catch you in my house that I am
entitled to kill you.
This isn't about entitlement. The cops can't be everywhere. I am not sure where and how someone is entitled to enter another's home unlawfully and take their TV -- that is the inference made by the silly example offered -- without consequence, but apparently we do agree that criminals are not entitled to break and enter. Good. That's nice.

As I said, look up the castle doctrine. Educate yourself. It is completely relevant to my position on my home where I live. And if you had bothered to read my posts, I have taken the position that I'd rather scare someone off than shoot 'em, (that is different from how I felt about 10 years ago) but if they don't scare off they are in dire peril.

Note on my previous post: the "stay the out" was not directed at you, Hempy, but at anyone who is considering breaking into someone's home. That may not have been clear in how it was presented.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 17:10
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks - there is a vast difference in going to a gun range,renting a gun which is kept safely there,being overseen by a professional and being in a safe and controlled environment than leaving the gun you own accessible to children or carrying a firearm in a public place. It is the uncontrolled guns that do the damage.We in the UK have gun ranges - there are clay ranges and a long range outdoor rifle range close to my home. The only guns specifically banned here are handguns,those are the cause of most of the deaths in the USA. It works here and our population are happy with it - about 50 gun deaths a year on average from all causes,25 or so are homicides in a population of 60 million or so that is about as good as you will get.our police are normally unarmed but have quick access when needed - only today a man with a gun was shot dead by armed police in London. It is not something that happens frequently. Our supposedly highly trained armed police are about as good at shooting people in questionable circumstances as the U.S. Police.
As far as being a more highly evolved - frankly if the rate we kill each other is a measure of that I am coming to the conclusion that there must be some difference in that respect between the rest of the developed world and the USA - have little look at the numbers and ask yourself why.if it is not the guns it must be the people. When it gets close to home that is when you realise how insane it is -a flight attendant colleague had her husband shot dead in front of her in the course of a bank robbery in Florida - that is what an uncontrolled gun culture means.

Last edited by bcgallacher; 31st Aug 2015 at 17:23.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 17:23
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Well, I guess we have our answer. There is no sickness in US society, they are no more killers than anyone else, its just that they have guns.

It appears that if we were allowed guns in the UK in the same way as the US then we would all become mass murderers overnight.

Don't forget, merely using a gun for fun is 100% acceptable.

All my conclusions are from the non US input to the constant gun threads of course....
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 17:32
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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I suggest that you read American Sniper, Mr. Gallacher, just to see how "vast" a difference there might be between what you recommend and what you condemn, "carrying a firearm in a public place." In terms of gun safety, of course.

So, having been "overseen by a professional," you could not envision someone going back to that same gun range to shoot on their own? That would be going too far?

How about owning a gun, instead of renting one? Also taboo? That would be you controlling the gun, I suppose. You would not feel up to that challenge? What, you might hand it to a child by mistake, or perhaps yield to some random impulse to shoot a few people?

To change the subject slightly, after you had been trained to drive a car, "overseen by a professional," did you then choose to buy a car and go driving on your own, on public roads? Are you aware of how many people die in car crashes in the USA every year? (Hint: cars kill more people than guns do.)

I have a nephew who either is, or was for last season, the New England Champion in trap shooting. He often drives around with a 12-gauge shotgun locked in a gun case in his car. How do you feel about that?
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 18:03
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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I still haven't heard a plausible explanation as to why so many more people are shot in the US than any other western country...
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