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Mock EU vote/In/Out

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Mock EU vote/In/Out

Old 9th Jun 2015, 14:42
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Why would people not be able to live and work across Europe? Work visas, residence visas, retirement visas are commonplace throughout the world.
The view from the other side of the pond is that there are tens and maybe even hundreds of thousands of Africans moving to and "living and working across Europe." What would prevent Europeans from doing what all these Africans are doing?
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 15:26
  #62 (permalink)  
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Nothing at all, they'd all move across the Atlantic while the east coasters there moved further west. Where California goes is a matter of little concern to the starving nomads of Africa.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 16:05
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Plaid Cymru?

vee-tail-1 Quote :- "When you say Brits, you mean English ... people who generally speak only one language .."

v-t-1, I only speak one language - English, and it has served me well over the years, always seem to be able to get by at most places around the world. Now, a second language might be useful, but which one? Welsh?- so that I can speak to all those Welsh people (nearly said Taffs) across the Severn. That would get me far in the world! What would you suggest to get me round, even, Europe, let alone the rest of the world.

Fate had me born onto the winning side, that is why we are conversing in English and not Welsh or Gaelic or French etc. etc..

My grandmother was Welsh and I still remember, as a child, going to Cardiff where the relatives were all singing about a little saucepan on the fire (or something). Those relatives didn't seem to be as bitter as you.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 17:18
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Paulc said
English first, British second, European Never - NO
Actually, it's Man of Kent first, English second, British third, European never!
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 17:39
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Always Up

what would Cameron need to get changed in order to make you vote Yes.

Next answer?
I don't have any absolutely specific red lines. Some changes will depend for their effect on other changes; in other words what will be important is the package, rather than any particular change within it.

So the real answer is, show me a package, and I'll tell you if I like it! Frustrating for Cameron, but that's part of the job.

However, I do have one principle as a red line, and if the changes are in accordance with it they are probably OK for me.

That principal is simply that the ultimate law-maker in every EU Member State is its own Government. It's arguable that observance of this principle would be the end of the EU, and it would probably mean that a political Union is out of the question. I'm very comfortable with that; I voted originally for the UK to join a Common Market, not to be ordered to recycle rubbish as the Commission dictates.

If we stay in the EU, and continue to hear that this, that or the other ridiculous Regulation from the Commission MUST be obeyed because we have signed away our right to ignore it, we will have failed utterly. In other words, if Cameron does not achieve the right to ignore the Commission, I'm voting to quit.

The French will, of course, simply continue to ignore what they choose to ignore; that's their way.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 17:39
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Aye, and definately (sic) - as we say up here!
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 18:25
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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We need another of these types of leader - QUICK



Lid
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 20:57
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Capot,

That principal is simply that the ultimate law-maker in every EU Member State is its own Government. It's arguable that observance of this principle would be the end of the EU, and it would probably mean that a political Union is out of the question. I'm very comfortable with that; I voted originally for the UK to join a Common Market, not to be ordered to recycle rubbish as the Commission dictates.
You are aware, I hope, that the vast majority of decisions made in Brussels must be adopted by each Member States government. In the UK all the Regulations go to Westminster.

Before going to Parliament each Regulation needs the approval of the European Parliament, which includes MEPs elected from Britain; the Commission, including one commissionar appointed by the British Government; and the Council, including the British Government.

It ain't like they are hiding anything under the rug here. Your government, and British representatives get a kick at the can.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 21:02
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Yes.






Did I say Yes?
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 22:02
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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We need another of these types of leader - QUICK
Guess who said this?

‘Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.’
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 22:06
  #71 (permalink)  
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But in those days Europe stopped at the French Riviera.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 23:02
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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U.S.E.?

Sallyann1234 Quote :-"‘Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.’

Where did he say that Britain should be part of it?
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 23:25
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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ExXB

You are aware, I hope, that the vast majority of decisions made in Brussels must be adopted by each Member States government. In the UK all the Regulations go to Westminster.
Yes, but to what extent does each Government have an option NOT to adopt the Regulation?
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 00:05
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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The crux of the problem is not adoption, but enforcement. I remember speaking to an Italian about when 'Blue Flags' came in for beach cleanliness. IIRC, the Brits appointed a huge inspection team and gradually worked their way around awarding them (or not).
The Italians de facto gave every tourist beach a Blue Flag, then a team of 3 Inspectors for the entire country (one of whom never left his desk in Rome), went round confirming them (never not).
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 04:13
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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If God had of intended for the UK to be in Europe ,She never would have built the English Chanel
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 07:22
  #76 (permalink)  
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How much extra tax would you pay for the EU? - Telegraph
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 08:18
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Pay up or shut up?

Cavorting "How much extra tax would you pay for the EU? - Telegraph"

What a good idea.

It should also apply to foreign aid

It's a win-win solution. The Government saves £55 million a day that can be spent on the NHS, defence, energy etc. etc. Those that want to be part of the EU will pay the extra taxes to cover our membership fee and the EU will still fund a couple of projects in the country.

Let those that want it, pay for it.

Of course there is one serious flaw in the suggestion. The U.K. has still lost its sovereignty!
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 08:44
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe, maybe not. It depends. I used to think NO but now I'm not so sure. I'll listen carefully to all the arguments and read widely before I decide how to vote. Sorry to be boring but it is actually too important to be dealt with in a knee-jerk.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 10:33
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Yes or no is not based entirely on logic & reason. If it was, then a yes vote would be certain ... the probable long term results of a no vote are too horrible to risk.

Sadly, emotions and the peculiar British sense of being 'different', get in the way of a rational choice.

To those of us who feel at home in Europe this 'difference' can be exasperating. Mixed nation Europeans have an unconscious chameleon like ability to merge into whatever local culture they find themselves. Even if they can't speak the local language, they soon pick up the body language.

Unfortunately this desire to fit in, to respect local culture and show good manners, is not always observed by some Brits. Indeed some seem hell bent on showing those 'foreigners' just how special and different us British really are. So we have Nigel Farage putting on a show in the European parliament ... and we have bare chested yobs clutching beer cans belching their way around the supermarkets in Spain and France.

Yet again on this forum some posts suggest that 'poor little Britain' is being pushed around by those wicked Europeans just like in 1940.

The reality is that an arrogant British child called D Cameron is having a tantrum and throwing his toys out of the EU pram.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:21
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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For me the fundamental difference is that under UK law everything is permitted unless there is legislation to prohibit and/or control it.

In the Peoples Republic of the EU everything is illegal unless the Stasi EU have dictated whether or not you can do it and if so how.
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