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Aerotoxic in the news

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Aerotoxic in the news

Old 8th Jun 2015, 20:38
  #721 (permalink)  
 
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Yet you have no proof of its existence.
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Old 8th Jun 2015, 20:59
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Old 8th Jun 2015, 21:05
  #723 (permalink)  
 
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I used to fly a well-maintained BAe 146 with BA Connect and had no problems with air quality. When Flybe took over, I had the misfortune to fly a particular 146 and started to suffer headaches. Now I've always considered myself fairly resilient to fumes and chemicals having spent many years at sea working on oil tankers and survived with no apparent side effects. As I rarely suffer headaches I googled the reg of this particular aircraft and, surprise surprise, it was involved in numerous publicised fume events in the past. There was the obvious sign of bad air quality with the air smelling of old wet socks. As far as I'm concerned, if the air smells bad, there's something in it that shouldn't be there.
There is no doubt that some aircraft have issues and good luck to those pursuing damages for being forced to endure them. Luckily I bailed out of Flybe and now fly shiny orange buses with sweet smelling air!!
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Old 8th Jun 2015, 21:05
  #724 (permalink)  
 
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claim to suffer
believe they're suffering
Is that your proof?
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Old 8th Jun 2015, 21:38
  #725 (permalink)  
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The proof comes from the thorough DNA adducts blood testing and fat cells biopsies conducted by Biolab in London. Each show consistent presence of toxins relating to neurological damage. When these tests become more main stream, which they will in time, the true volume of victims will be known.
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Old 8th Jun 2015, 21:40
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 00:14
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Do these tests show where the toxins were inhaled/ingested?
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 01:59
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If conducted shortly after a fume event the tests are definitely more accurate in their ability to pin point the level and point of exposure. It is the constant 'low level exposure' over years here which is key and the hardest to prove in a court of law. To ask does a blood test show 'where' the exposure took place displays either ignorance or naivety as our levels of science are no where near that type of capability. But I guess you knew that already.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 07:34
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Right, so you can't prove long term exposure.

Did any of these 17 suffer fume events and were they tested immediately afterwards?
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 09:28
  #730 (permalink)  
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No comment on the above but have a read of this article:

Aerotoxic Syndrome ? Aviation?s Secret That Is Risking Your Health Every Time You Fly | Collective-Evolution
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 09:53
  #731 (permalink)  
 
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Why no comment?

Yet more linked guff and no proof.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 10:31
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collective evolution.com? Not even game enough to click on the link. Do you have anything from a reputable source?
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 12:36
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I never agreed with or cited any article that said TCP levels were worse in an office or home environment. There are no offices im aware of where it's workers are presenting with multiple neurological symptoms?
That you're aware of? And how much have you studied office and home environments? Not at all you say? Hmmmmm.

Further, there have been NUMEROUS studies comparing the health of aircrew with the general population. EVERY study has shown that aircrew are NOT suffering a greater rate of sickness/disease/death than the general population except for possibly melanoma. If aircrew were being poisoned at one hundredth the rate the zealots claim, it would show up in the statistics. Indeed the statistics show the OPPOSITE is true. Aircrew generally live healthier and longer lives than the general population.

Can you name any? If so where is the source in the office/home environment of neurotoxins.
There are MANY sources for organophosphates, including cleaning fluids, pesticides, lubricants, building materials, furniture materials, carpet materials, etc, etc. Jet lube is but ONE source. And every motor vehicle on the planet is driving around with a few liters of carcinogenic motor oil and spewing the fumes from said oil into the air.

Last edited by KenV; 9th Jun 2015 at 13:30.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 12:59
  #734 (permalink)  
 
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In 50's & 60's racing drivers were dying with regularity. ..... It took 20 years of united determination; but it came from a few people's solid refusal to accept the status quo. They changed the world for the better; and who would deny they were absolutely correct? Who would go back to the bad old days?
However............

The race car drivers were indeed dying, and dying at an alarming rate. EVERY study done on aircrew shows they generally live healthier and longer lives than the general population (with the possible exception of melanoma.) So "accepting the status quo" looks like a good thing in this case.
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Old 9th Jun 2015, 13:35
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I have stayed away from this debate for some time. Clearly the debate has not moved on. At all.

Where has it got to?

A. Some people (1) seem to be susceptible to something, probably a chemical, (2) that is probably found in a very few cases (3) on, or near, aeroplanes. (4)

1. Genetics? Clearly, not everyone gets a response to the conditions on planes.
2. Which chemical? One variation of OP? - Which has never been found on an aeroplane anywhere near the TLV. Or might it be unconverted phosgene from the polyurethanes in the carpets, glue etc.?? We do not know. And the PU makers are not about to tell you about their dodgy batches.
3. Where nasty types of OP have been found, the amount has been well below the TLV - so only a very few people are susceptible............if it is OP.
4. Is the nasty stuff in the aeroplane, or on the ground near the plane?

B. Some people who appear to be ill have to "hide" their current view of the "real" cause because the employer's insurance is generous for some illnesses, but not others. Er, maybe so, maybe not.

C There is no proof of anything .

D. resources put in to testing susceptibility might be better than fitting filters. For instance, no-one knows why, but some people are susceptible to MDI/TDI. They cannot live in its presence. The world still makes huge amounts of MDI/TDI, and the susceptible just can't go near it.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 16:57
  #736 (permalink)  
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Cabin crew 'plan legal action over toxic cabin air' - Telegraph
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 18:00
  #737 (permalink)  

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"EVERY study has shown that aircrew are NOT suffering a greater rate of sickness/disease/death than the general population except for possibly melanoma."

Cutaneous melanoma is SUCH an unpredictable cancer that it really isn't a very good marker. Just about all we know is that on diagnosis, thick lesions usually do worse and thin lesions generally do better. The presence of tumour-free sentinel nodes has not been shown to be such a nice home-free signal as was originally hoped. Tumour mitotic rate is starting to look like as good a prognostic indicator.

Most other cancers are a somewhat more predictable, but the truth of the matter is that if you have a "good" cancer, with appropriate treatment you'll probably survive, and that if you have a "bad" cancer you can stand on your head and whistle "Sarie Marais" and it'll still kill you.

Molecular genetic analysis of individual tumours is just starting to give us some clues, but we still don't really know yet. Over the next decade or two we'll start to better understand the many and complex genetic changes that make some cancerous cells "bad" in relation to the individual patient and develop better and more personalised treatments.

The current blunderbusses will be replaced by expensive sniper's rifles that'll give us a more accurate hit most of the time.

But I'm pretty sure that there will never be a cheap and easy "fits-all" solution.

I'd be willing to bet that ways of significantly prolonging an already healthy life in people with good genetics will come first.

Mac



"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."


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Old 18th Jun 2015, 21:42
  #738 (permalink)  
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On the TV in the UK tonight:

Pilot's family believe he was poisoned by toxic cabin air - ITV News
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Old 18th Jun 2015, 21:53
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"Believe..."
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Old 18th Jun 2015, 21:59
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Ask the coroner, 3 professors and 2 top doctors who also 'believe'.
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