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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 11th Oct 2019, 02:37
  #19541 (permalink)  
 
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Ohhh dear

https://www.indy100.com/article/mela...nquiry-9149171
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 03:17
  #19542 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, well....

From the Washington Pose https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...Zm4?li=BBnb7Kz

“When people were listening to this in real time there were significant concerns about what was going on — alarm bells were kind of ringing,” said one person familiar with the sequence of events inside the White House, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter. “People were trying to figure out what to do, how to get a grasp on the situation.”It is unclear whether some or all of the officials who complained to Eisenberg are also the ones who later spoke to the whistleblower.The accounts are sharply at odds with Trump’s depiction of the call as a “perfect” exchange in which he “did nothing wrong,” despite appearing to link U.S. support for Ukraine to that country’s willingness to investigate the family of the former vice president. On Thursday, Trump renewed his attacks on Twitter, describing the impeachment inquiry as a “Democrat Scam.”But new details about the sequence inside the White House suggest that concerns about the call and events leading up to it were profound even among Trump’s top advisers, including Bolton and then-acting deputy national security adviser Charles Kupperman. Bolton and Kupperman did not respond to requests for comment.Officials said that within hours of the 9 a.m. conversation, a rough transcript compiled by aides had been moved from a widely shared White House computer network to one normally reserved for highly classified intelligence operations. According to the whistleblower’s complaint, White House lawyers “directed” officials to move the transcript to the classified system. At the same time, officials were seeking ways to report what they had witnessed, an undertaking complicated by the lack of a White House equivalent to the inspector general positions found at other agencies.As a result, one official who had listened on the call went “immediately” to Eisenberg. By the end of the next day, at least two others who had either heard the call or seen the rough transcript had also done so, said a person familiar with the matter.It is not clear whether Eisenberg took any action either after the warnings he received earlier in July or after the Trump-Zelensky conversation. One official said Eisenberg vowed he would “follow-up,” a message interpreted to mean that he intended to investigate the matter and perhaps relay the dismay up the ranks to White House counsel Pat Cipollone.If that occurred, it would help to explain how the White House was already aware of concerns about the July 25 call when contacted by the CIA general counsel weeks before a whistleblower complaint submitted by an agency employee had become public.White House officials did not respond to questions about Eisenberg or a request for comment.
There is so much shite that we have no idea about, let's hope it keeps coming. I suspect the dam is about to burst and the blind will see the Emperor has no clothes.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 05:07
  #19543 (permalink)  
 
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How utterly boring. Later this morning we will read that these two mem are actually acolytes of Saul Alinski and Jeremiah Wright, I mean somehow, just somehow it has to be the fault of democrats from 40 years ago.

it makes one yawn.

Dems are going to have to do better than a perp walk,
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 05:54
  #19544 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
I do find it interesting, though, that so many who opposed the US going in to Afghanistan and Iraq now argue for staying, while most who supported the action then now want us out.
That falls under the heading of "You break it, you bought it." We incur a responsibility to make right that which we damage.

It's a moral responsibility - but it is also pragmatic, because damaged countries tend to fester and become even worse threats.

We understood that back at the end of WW2, and put a lot of cash and effort into rebuilding Europe and Japan so that they wouldn't fester and fall to Communism, or revert to Fascism.

Since then, we've mostly just pissed around and tried to do wars on the cheap, with bad results.

Of note, Germany and Japan are reasonably close in area to Afghanistan and Iraq (area counts when you need boots on the ground). In 1945 we occupied (just part of) Germany with 335,000 soldiers and Japan with 350,000. That is how you win a war and the peace that follows, effectively enough to make it stick and eventually get out with your former foes as allies, or at least stable long-term.

If you can't commit to such an outcome - don't start. Ought to be written into the War Powers Act.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 06:31
  #19545 (permalink)  
 
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So it is safe to say, Pattern, that you don't have anything of substance to say regarding what direction the US should take regarding Iraq/Afghanistan going forward from now?

That's the current topic of discussion. You prefer to rehash the prior 18 years of debate, and FWIW I don't completely disagree with your last post.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 06:35
  #19546 (permalink)  
 
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Japan and Germany were turned around after the war through economics. Opposite economics to the Versailles Treaty. (You can mostly blame France the Punisher for that)
Earn a good living in peace - everyone happy.

Iraq and Afghanistan have a different roadblock to peace and happiness. A diametrically opposed religion.
Economics are a non-starter for them. Fairytale religion trumps a stable, prosperous society. The West is full of infidels and there never, ever will be religious peace.
Syria is a separate basket case, but with the religious handicap as well and a real dumbass sort of in charge. The Kurds? The bed has been made on this one. Never abandon your Allies.
All your other Allies will trust you far, far less - about so many things. Turkey is not an ally under the current government and mindset.

One can have Muslim friends personally and in business but the greater, high level religious divide will never go away. Recognize the lost causes over there. Get out and try to contain their influence on anyone else without fighting too much. They will continue to fight the religious cults within themselves. They seem to like that. It's a cultural thing. Continue to reduce dependence on oil.
Make them far less important to anyone else in the world.

Oh, right, the official trump lies today included - "I never knew those guys."
Cue Facebook photos of him and them at a recent WH dinner.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 12:23
  #19547 (permalink)  

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Good post Meadowrun

Mac

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Old 11th Oct 2019, 13:24
  #19548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
Good post Meadowrun
Mac
I second that!
The religious war has only been going on for 3,000 years or so among the Islamic religious factions.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 14:03
  #19549 (permalink)  
 
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3000 years?!

The Prophet was born in 570 AD, he died in 632 AD. The schism between the Sunnis and the Shias started soon after his death. Let us say around 1350 years ago.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 14:05
  #19550 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Oh, right, the official trump lies today included - "I never knew those guys."
I think what happened was Trump didn't say the rest of the sentence, "I never knew those guys before I had dinner with them."




Rudy feeling the heat!

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Old 11th Oct 2019, 15:35
  #19551 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Speaking of Mob families, two of Rudy's Ukrainian/Russian "guyz" were just indicted for campaign violations, and arrested while attempting to flee the country. They had lunch with Rudy "hours" before their arrest.
They ALL do this stuff. Trump is no better or worse than Chairman Barack ( or Clinton, Inc. for that matter). Trump should somehow be expected to hold different "ethical" standards ? This ain't the Boy Scouts. I doubt it's ever been different. We just hear more about it these days:

"Barack Obama's presidential campaign has been fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for violating federal disclosure laws, Politico reports.

An FEC audit of Obama for America's 2008 records found the committee failed to disclose millions of dollars in contributions and dragged its feet in refunding millions more in excess contributions.

The resulting fine, one of the largest ever handed down by the FEC, is the result of a failure to disclose or improperly disclosing thousands of contributions to Obama for America during the then-senator's 2008 presidential run, documents show."

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...egal-donations
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 17:12
  #19552 (permalink)  
 
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Sweet! Every new revelation is answered by " but Obama/Clinton did worse". Go figure! I thought these guys were suppossed to be draining the swamp. Now we are told by bafanguy that nothing's changed at all.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 17:50
  #19553 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Revnetwork View Post
Sweet! Every new revelation is answered by " but Obama/Clinton did worse". Go figure! I thought these guys were suppossed to be draining the swamp. Now we are told by bafanguy that nothing's changed at all.
No it hasn’t, if anything it’s gotten worse. Unless and until every ingrained political appointee, career politicians and their staffs, lobbyists and the whole political food chain emanating from DC it won’t.
Ain’t going to happen.
Right now the curtain is being ever so slightly opened on just how corrupt these folks are. Trump, like him or not, has managed to rile them up enough so we all get to see just how far they will go to protect “their domain”.

The results of the two investigations into the Russia probe will be interesting.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 17:53
  #19554 (permalink)  
 
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Obama's campaign was nailed for paperwork violations - legal donations not reported correctly or on time. Fine duly paid.

Trump's guys have been nailed for illegal foreign money contributions, laundered through a shell company (reported, but dishonestly). And then attempting to the flee the country. Which will end up in jail time for somebody.

"Everybody walks" - but some people walk to the police station and pay the fine, and others run from the police.

If Bafanguy and others can't see a difference, they need to refresh their education and analytic capability. Starting from about 2nd grade, apparently.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 17:57
  #19555 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
....Trump, like him or not, has managed to rile them up enough so we all get to see just how far they will go to protect “their domain” take over and become Alligator-in-Chief.

The results of the two investigations into the Russia probe will be interesting disappear - a shadow play to keep Trumpo happy.
Fixed that for ya.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 18:13
  #19556 (permalink)  
 
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for OB
The Past
Iraq - done and dusted. Troops left 8 years ago. No reason imaginable to return.
Afghanistan - no reason to keep troops there now. Opportunity to fix things long lost. Sad for the women the Taliban will no-doubt execute for "being educated" and similar - but we had our chance and blew it.

Today
Syria - equivocal. The reasons to stay at this point are - give dictators Erdogan and Putin a pain in the butt, keep our word to people we promised to support, prevent revival of ISIS. Not worth any lives unless we can make those stick. Half-assed action is worse than no action.

The Future
As I said - going into any situation, there are two possible outcomes. Win, or cut-and-run. I don't like cutting and running, but if we foul up the opportunity to win, that's all we're left with. We'll see if we've learned that lesson yet.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 18:18
  #19557 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Fixed that for ya.
Obviously you have a different perspective on things, but that doesn’t change mine, or what I wrote.

But thank you anyway.

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Old 11th Oct 2019, 20:39
  #19558 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Revnetwork View Post
Sweet! Every new revelation is answered by " but Obama/Clinton did worse". Go figure! I thought these guys were suppossed to be draining the swamp. Now we are told by bafanguy that nothing's changed at all.
Rev,

My point isn't that Obama/Clinton did worse; it's that they all do the same and likely have for as long as there have been US politicians. I say nothing has changed because nothing has changed...and no swamp will be drained...by anyone. Welcome to American politics: the worst politicians money can buy.

pattern_is_full,

Personal insults don't add much to a discussion. I learned that in the 2nd grade.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 08:04
  #19559 (permalink)  
 
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Q from the outside: how many sitting presidents have chosen not to run for a second term?

Any chance the incumbent looks as the balance sheet in a few months time and decides not to run "for personal reasons?"

Commentary that resonates is that with current happenings he may be losing some of the fencesitters who believe whilst the economy may be OK the way he handles the presidency leaves them uncertain.
Once you lose people it takes a whole lot of work to get them back.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 08:30
  #19560 (permalink)  
 
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Didn't the Orange Panda make a comment a few days ago that the US would no longer be part of those useless middle east wars?

And now he sends troops to defend Saudi (look at your 2001 history, girls) against their sworn enemy, Yemen.

Saudi has hundreds of thousands of their own troops, all with US aircraft and weapons. Leave them to it. (But perhaps we already know, that without expats to run the show, the locals are pretty useless.)
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