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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 21st Jun 2019, 19:40
  #18621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
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Ob

“Always about the "feelings", the outrages, and being offended.”

Precisely what put the accidental president in the whitehouse!!

Gingrich laid out the realities of the game for all to see in this CNN interview.

Its all about “feelings” despite actual stats that dont support the “feelings”.

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Old 21st Jun 2019, 20:23
  #18622 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe, Chuks, if I heard something new from you once in a while on this thread, I could respond differently. However, despite raising your word count exponentially, you are still blowing the same old horn: "Orange Man Bad. Vote for him you are stupid and racist. Think like us or else."

When you have posted the same damn thing for three years, don't be surprised if the opposition repeats its critiques.

Look at these headlines today. The media can;t decide if they are mad at Trump for authorizing an attack on Iran, or mad at Trump for canceling an attack on Iran. So their outrage devolves to "there, he's indecisive".
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 21:42
  #18623 (permalink)  
 
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Uh-huh ....

OB, you do enjoy faking stances taken by those you disagree with, don't you? With this one you ignored my obvious objection to making this binary: like/dislike, pushing anything at all nuanced, somewhere in the middle, out to both edges instead. That is primitive and deeply stupid: truly Trumpian. It turns "don't dislike" into "like," when you clowns can then start chirping about how those against Trump and his foolish partisans are just so terribly, terribly emotional.

Meanwhile, if there is a rational basis for supporting Trump then I guess I must have missed that. Just look at the way Trump himself can only return to the same lying, damn-fool rhetoric from 2016; feel free to point out anything new.

If there was a reason for attacking Iran, then I suppose we should have done so. Instead we are presented with the spectacle of Trump ordering the attack but then stopping it at the last minute. Doesn't that hint that Trump had not worked out quite what he wanted to do there?

Attacking another country absent a declaration of war ... didn't we get all huffy when the Japs did that to us? It is not the sort of thing to be done lightly in such a start-stop way. "Ooh, look at me, waving my cocked and loaded gun around. Almost shot you, I did. Are you scared?"

Yes, Donald, we are scared, but not for the reason you think.

There was another example of what a dunce Trump is: It is "locked and loaded," from the manual of arms for the old M1 Garand rifle. Not even that the rifle was then ready to fire, just that the bolt had been locked back so that a clip of eight rounds had been loaded into the magazine. After that you would still need to release the bolt from its locked-open position to make the rifle ready to fire. Generations of ignoramuses have been shouting "Locked and loaded!" thinking that meant they were ready to unleash hell. All you might do with a locked and loaded M1 is to drop it on someone's foot, because it would not fire.

Moving right along, first you load a weapon, and then you cock it, so that the sequence would be "loaded and cocked." There is no point to cocking a weapon that had not already been loaded. Trump just messed up that old cliché, "locked and loaded," showing ignorance squared.

What if an aide had appeared at the critical moment with a nice, hot cheeseburger? "Get me the Pentagon on the line! No, wait .... Ooh, that smells too good to resist! Bring me a Diet Coke and give me five minutes alone in here with this cheeseburger. The call to the Pentagon will just have to wait."

"Yes, Mr. President, but the first salvo of Tomahawks is due to be launched in just three minutes."

"Yeah, sure. So what, now I have to eat fast? Anyway, gimme that Diet Coke and beat it. I will call when I am good and ready to call. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 22:34
  #18624 (permalink)  
 
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Yesterday Cheeto saved 150 Iranians from certain death...wants Nobel Peace prize now.

Last edited by jack11111; 21st Jun 2019 at 23:15.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 00:01
  #18625 (permalink)  
 
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You never disappoint, Chuks! The real questions of the day are what happened to the drone, who did it, why did they do it, and what should be done about it. Then we can discuss what the US did or did not do.

But you would rather devote ten paragraphs of childish insults to Trump's response process or lack of same, his twitterability, and his choice of words to make his points. Of course, by extension, you also suggest that anyone not fully engaged in the anti-Trumpian hate-fest shares in your derision.

No doubt you'll soon be here to tell us just how many prospective dead Iranians it took to dissuade Trump, and why that number is far too high, reflective of his obvious bias against Iran. There could be a typhoon in Bandar Abbas, the Marines could go in and save 1100 people, and you'd be mad that it wasn't 1120 and that was Trump's fault.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 02:05
  #18626 (permalink)  
 
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Thought the most important question is - exactly where it was shot down.
Aren't there 3 or so disputed islands in the immediate area?
Slap a 12 mile limit around each and maybe you've got a "Yes it is - No it's not" handbag fight a la South China Sea.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 02:35
  #18627 (permalink)  
 
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She isn't my girl, she is the Congressional Representative of New York's 14th Congressional District.
Does that bother you that I refer to her that way?
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 05:33
  #18628 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting mindsets ....

West Coast looked at this young woman in a position of power and called her a "girl." Someone seems to be bothered there. It can't be that West Coast is unable to tell the difference between a girl and a young woman, can it? (Expert tip: Always check for wisdom teeth before you make that signature move, "So, Baby, what's your sign? I'm a surfin' Sagittarius.")

What are you hinting at, West Coast? Should AOC be back there in Queens having girly tea parties for her dolls instead of running around Washington trying to do a man's job?

When it comes to shoot-downs it's going to be difficult to be terribly het up about the Iranians having shot down a US drone that might arguably have been in their airspace, not after we had shot down an Iranian A300 that certainly was not in our airspace. 290 people died then, leaving us without much standing to complain now.

I think it's pretty easy to find answers to OB's "real questions of the day [...] what happened to the drone, who did it, why did they do it, and what should be done about it."

What happened to the drone? It was shot down by a surface-to-air missile, a SAM.

Who did it? The Iranians did it. They said so and we believe them. How could you miss such an obvious fact?

Why did the Iranians shoot down our drone with a SAM? Well, OB, according to them, it was violating their airspace, when that had to have been a very, very close call. So they were "protecting their airspace," just on the face of it. My guess is that in addition they were calling Trump's bluff, when he blinked first.

What should be done about it? I think that by now we can make that "What should have been done about it?" Opinions may differ, but according to Trump he did what should have been done about it. That was to almost, but not quite, take military action against Iran, only stopping at the last minute to leave his rapt audience asking "What was that all about?"

All you Trump fans, please take a moment to remember what this ass-clown pretending to be a statesman last told Iran, that if they even made any more threats he was going to cause Iran to cease to exist. (Typical Trump, to meet threats with an extremely dire ... threat. Why not threaten to sue them, Donald? Get Michael Cohen to call them on the phone to .... No, Cohen can't make international calls from prison. Drat!)

So ... no more threats from Iran but action instead: two tankers attacked, with one set on fire; and now one of our drones blown out of the sky. And President Trump almost did something about this .... It's those bone spurs, again.

This situation calls for a cheeseburger and a Diet Coke ... comfort eating ....
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 05:55
  #18629 (permalink)  
 
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So last week you were all wadded up that Don was going to have us at war in two more days by threatening those Mad Mullah boys.

And now that wad is stuck even higher because he didn't and so the Mullah lads are winning.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 06:48
  #18630 (permalink)  
 
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OB, you guys like Trump for the way he's so very, very butch: "I'll bomb the sh*t out of ISIS," all that sort of thing, so much tougher than wimpish Obama. So, what did your Action Man do? Nothing except to bluster, right? (I had a fellow tell me once about how angry he had been at someone, so that he "almost hit him!" I thought to myself, "My goodness! I am almost impressed.")

OB, you need to try harder to keep more than one thing in mind at once. It is this combination of extremely bellicose rhetoric with lack of action that I am complaining about here, not that Trump merely failed to carry through with his threats against Iran.

If Trump had anyone highly capable of that, diplomacy would probably be the best option, but if one claims to prefer military force, as Trump does claim to, then one had better carry through with that to some degree. Someone in a bar who leads off with "I am going to kick your ass!" is going to have a hard time to then switch to sweet reason; that is obvious. Not to Trump, but still obvious ....

Here we see Trump, a failure at checkers, going up against the gang that have been playing chess for about 1400 years, with predictable results.

A couple of minor points:

There was an attack on tankers out in the Gulf of Oman. Trump's response? More troops! So, Donald, are these troops real good swimmers, or what? A nautical threat calls for a nautical response.

Our drone was in "international waters," according to Trump. No, dummy, a ship would be in international waters, floating; our drone was claimed to have been in international airspace, flying.

It is a tough trick to pull off, but Trump has managed to make this gang of religious fanatics ruling Iran look pretty darn smooth, merely by contrast.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 13:21
  #18631 (permalink)  
 
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Trump confirms he called off retaliatory Iran attack ‘10 minutes before the strike’

"... I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not ... proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world," Trump said.

But then,



Trump ordered up mass arrests for reelection purposes.

President Trump has directed U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to conduct a mass roundup of migrant families that have received deportation orders, an operation that is likely to begin with predawn raids in major U.S. cities on Sunday, according to three U.S. officials with knowledge of the plans.

The “family op,” as it is referred to at ICE and the Department of Homeland Security, is slated to target up to 2,000 families facing deportation orders in as many as 10 U.S. cities, including Houston, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles and other major immigration destinations, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the law enforcement operation. Some within DHS and ICE say the president appears to be using the operation for political purposes as he begins his reelection bid.

Couple these two events together and it would seem Trump cares more about the wellbeing of ~150 Iranians than the wellbeing of 2,000 immigrant families living and working in the US for years, illegal or not. But, Trump probably never gave a thought linking the two events with his impulsive decision making. As usual, Trump is all about Trump...
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 13:28
  #18632 (permalink)  
 
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West Coast,
She isn't my girl, she is the Congressional Representative of New York's 14th Congressional District.
Does that bother you that I refer to her that way?
No it doesn't bother me at all, you can refer to her however you want. I was just pointing out the difference between your fictionalism and actual realism...
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 16:46
  #18633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Iran Calls Trump’s Bluff

Hmm, I wonder what Trump's real plan is if he has one or is he just winging it as usual?

Wall Street Journal Editorial Board published in the 6/22/19 print edition

The President is caught between hawkish goals and dovish means.

President Trump called off a military strike against Iran in mid-mission Thursday, and his supporters and even some of his critics are hailing it as an act of restraint and courage. The question for American interests is whether Iran and other adversaries will see it instead as a sign of weakness and indecision.

It’s important to understand how extraordinary this is. The Commander in Chief ordered ships and planes into battle but recalled them because he hadn’t asked in advance what the damage and casualties might be? While the planes were in the air, he asked, oh, by the way? This is hard to take at face value.

More likely, he changed his mind because he had second thoughts about the military and political consequences of engaging in a conflict he promised as a candidate to avoid. Mr. Trump may have saved Iranian lives now, but his indecision and professed fear of casualties may be risking more American lives later.

Squeezed by the U.S. “maximum pressure” campaign, Iran’s rulers are trying to pressure Mr. Trump in return. In recent weeks they have attacked oil pipelines, mined oil tankers, and this week brazenly shot down a $130 million U.S. drone monitoring shipping lanes over international waters. Iran’s bet is that Mr. Trump is so averse to military confrontation that he will ease U.S. sanctions. On the evidence of the aborted mission, they may be right.

The damage from Mr. Trump’s stand-down depends in part on how Iran’s leaders respond. If they agree to talks to revise the 2015 nuclear agreement, the restraint might pay off. Yet Iran’s leaders have shown no interest in talking as long as U.S. sanctions are in place. If Mr. Trump eases sanctions to get Iran to the bargaining table, he is back to the Obama nuclear deal.

On the other hand if the Iranians escalate again, Mr. Trump’s restraint will look misguided and weak. If Americans are now killed by Iranian proxies, his failure to use force to deter attacks will deserve some of the blame.

Laying out these potential stakes isn’t “war mongering,” as the new isolationists on the right claim. This is the reality of geopolitics in which credibility is crucial to deterrence. The more that adversaries think Mr. Trump’s threats of force aren’t credible, the more they will seek to exploit that knowledge.

After Barack Obama failed to enforce his “red line” in Syria in 2013, adversaries soon took advantage. Vladimir Putin snatched Crimea from Ukraine and moved into Syria, China pushed further into the South China Sea, and Iran expanded its proxy wars in the Middle East. Will they draw similar license now from Mr. Trump’s stand-down?

The great weakness of Donald Trump’s foreign policy is its volatility. He is unpredictable to a fault. He has doubted his own Venezuela policy from the first week he signed off on it. He called Kim Jong Un crazy but now says he’s a swell guy. He signed a trade deal with Mexico then threatened it with new tariffs.

On Iran he has adopted a policy goal favored by hawkish Sen. Lindsey Graham but wants to use only the means of isolationist Sen. Rand Paul to achieve it. He warned that “if Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran,” but he lets Iran shoot down a drone and interfere with international shipping.

If Mr. Trump’s real policy is Mr. Paul’s, then he should be honest with Americans and return to the Obama nuclear deal. In the meantime, Iran appears to be calling Mr. Trump’s bluff.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 04:01
  #18634 (permalink)  
 
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Trump seems to believe in a very strange tactic because he has just used it twice in close succession. He goes to the brink of doing something not fully thought-out but then pulls back at the last minute. Then he expects praise for showing restraint by not doing that impulsive thing he said he was going to do, and even began to do.

Trump threatened to expel "millions" of illegal migrants as his latest campaign promise. That turned into perhaps 2,000 of them, and then, suddenly, the number dropped to zero, Trump waiting for joint action on migration by Republicans and Democrats instead.

Just before that, things got really weird with Iran. First we were going to eradicate Iran if they so much as threatened us. Trump's own threat was backed by positioning a carrier group nearby, so "serious stuff."

Iran called Trump's bluff, when he backed down at the last minute from an attack in retaliation for their shoot-down of one of our expensive drones. What he did instead was to zig-zag between more threats, but also praise for Iran not shooting down a P-8, ending for now with a weird promise to "Make Iran great again," as if it were within his power to do that.

What, Donald, you are going to give Iran new aluminum siding? "Yes, and vinyl storm windows too!"

Trump is all over the map here, showing himself to be completely unpredictable by his own public statements. We already had a deal with Iran, except that it had been worked out by the Obama Administration, along with our international partners. Trump ripped that one up and now he somehow expects Iran to come back and negotiate another deal about the same as the one Trump, not Iran, backed out of.

The point for Trump seems to be that this should be a deal between Iran and Trump personally, except that he has shown himself to be completely undependable. There are far too many examples of how a Trump promise is worthless, plus here he's dealing with a nation led by people who have very strong religious motivation. Not that it is 100% correct to hold to some literally medieval version of Islam, just that the leadership of Iran really does do that.

On our side, it should be clear to Trump, as it is to plenty of his fellow Americans, that his approach to ruling is dysfunctional. Trump's approach to life, what produced a long series of failures and scandals that was just part of the Trump brand before his freak election, is now producing real serious trouble for the world as a whole.

Trump, being Trump, is not going to learn from any of this; he is not going to change in a profound way and rise to the obligations of his high office. (Not even his tiny fan club here expect Trump to change. They are happy to expect him to remain just as annoying as ever because that is what they like to see, that annoyance he causes to people they simply dislike.)

Like a chameleon, Trump can cycle through a limited spectrum of colors, from orange for everyday wear to bright red when cornered by a question about something naughty he has been up to, but whatever color he assumes he is still just a scaly little lizard. He can "act presidential," reading in his stumbling way off a teleprompter when he chooses to, but it is clear that with Trump that is just an act. At heart he still is the little grifter from Queens he began as.

Last edited by chuks; 23rd Jun 2019 at 04:22.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 17:32
  #18635 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
At heart he still is the little grifter from Queens he began as.
He wants to sell you a green MIGA hat.
If you didn't hear his press event yesterday, he proposed some kind of "come to the table and let's make a deal" thing which he called "Make Iran Great Again."
I am not kidding. I was watching the news yesterday and that is what came out.
I figure hat sales are soon to follow.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 18:09
  #18636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Hmm, I wonder what Trump's real plan is if he has one or is he just winging it as usual?

Wall Street Journal Editorial Board published in the 6/22/19 print edition

The President is caught between hawkish goals and dovish means.

What makes you believe Trump hasn’t answered the shootdown?
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 22:00
  #18637 (permalink)  
 
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Well, Lonewolf, we could take a hint from Bill Engvall and use these hats just like his sign, the one that reads "I'm stupid."

Trump's hats might be the one thing of his that really is useful. Well aside from being useful to Trump for separating the boobs from their cash, of course; he has had plenty of things that were good for that, such as Trump University, just not much use to anyone else.

You can't make this stuff up: Early next month I am going on an extensive tour of Germany with a 70 year-old man from Myanmar and his 40 year-old assistant, for about ten days. Then there is a break of about a week, and then another week on tour.

The older guy is a specialist in tuning Burmese nipple gongs (not little gongs that hang off a stripper's nipples, just big gongs that feature a nipple) and he only speaks Burmese, I guess. The younger guy speaks Burmese and some English. How much English, no idea except a hell of a lot more English than I can speak Burmese. Neither one can speak a word of German, of course.

Where I come in is that I can speak English and German, plus I have a driving license and some knowledge of mysterious and exotic Germany. So off we go, tuning nipple gongs for some orchestra as it tours Germany. (It must be a pretty big deal, going to all this trouble to keep some gongs in tune.)

So ... what does that have to do with Donald John Trump, you may ask? Simples; I am leaving this laptop behind, to enjoy a period of blessed respite. Unless the poor man succeeds in starting World War III I can just go on a diet of German domestic sight-seeing and sort of forget Donald Trump for a while.

I am sure it will be business as usual here, Trump partisans giving it the good old Kellyanne Conway spin, battling severe headwinds as this literal lunatic carries on with his North Korean love letters, and a few more random women popping up to tell us that they too were raped, molested, insulted, bilked, peeped upon, peed upon, cheated, conned, disappointed by having been promised dinner and a thrilling thing to find that meant a Big Mac with a baby carrot as a side dish, and so on ....

In the meantime, want to bet that even two souls from somewhere far out in the Burmese bush have heard of Donald Trump? If they turn out to be fans of his then I shall drop them off on the infamous Reeperbahn, telling them that, yes, that low-set building with big red hearts painted all over it is the Elbphilharmonie, so go right in and get to tuning those nipple gongs. Let the Hamburg Vice Squad sort that one out ....
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 00:06
  #18638 (permalink)  
 
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Enjoy your travels, Chuks. I'm sure you will have some great sushi.

In these parts there are quite a few recent immigrants from Burma, or whatever they call it this week. They have taken to running sushi counters. Apparently they all were trained in Salt Lake City. So we get Mormon Sushi. MAGA!

Since there are plenty of nice young American LDS's in Germany, they probably like sushi too. But Trump doesn't like sushi at all.
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 04:15
  #18639 (permalink)  
 
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Too symbolic?

When the Donald looked at one of those little orange prawns on a bed of rice it probably reminded him of Little Donald, last time he had seen him, about 30 pounds of flab ago. so that he shuddered and went for his usual bucket of chicken instead.

We are off the beaten path here so that I have never met a pair of young Mormons doing that usual missionary thing. The Jehovah's Witnesses are not an uncommon sight, handing out their pamphlets, and we have a friend who is a Seventh Day Adventist, along with a pair of Germans who have converted to what seems to be Reform Judaism, but I have never met any Mormons here at all. For the most part it is just Lutherans here, for historical reasons.
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 12:34
  #18640 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post


What makes you believe Trump hasn’t answered the shootdown?
Trump's reversible history...
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