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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 21st Jun 2019, 06:30
  #18621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 71
Posts: 1,560
Wrong again ....

I think that AOC is a breath of fresh air. On other hand, does she have a sure future in our national legislature? Probably not is my guess, but that is not to say that she's going to be a one-term wonder even if her constituents are as unhappy with her as West Coast seems to think that they are.

She came out of left field to take an amazing win in her little district. That was something the incumbent never saw coming, since who tosses out a successful ten-term congressman in that way? That sort of thing usually only happens in the wake of some huge scandal, not on the basis of politics alone. You are right, West Coast, to think that the same thing that got AOC in, local people deciding to take a chance on her, may get her out again if those same people find that she has not done enough for them. As it is, she seems to be focused on national issues, so that we don't hear much about her on the local level aside from her moves against this Amazon headquarters.

As to that, I think that it's pretty much correct to ask you, West Coast, about your knowledge of New York City. You only seem to see one side of this issue with Amazon, taking New York City as a whole. Really it's made up of many little enclaves, so that someone living on Park Avenue may have very little in common with someone living in Queens.

As you travel around all of the City you can see how very diverse it is. Unless you have read both widely and deeply about the City (and you do not come off as much of a reader, West Coast) then you would need to have gone there, and gone all over the City, to understand a bit better where AOC literally is coming from in her opposition to this Amazon deal.

Lots of folks have "been to New York City," when that usually means that they've gone straight from La Guardia or JFK into Manhattan for a short stay, and then straight back. Brooklyn, the Bronx, Queens, Staten Island ... terra incognita.

From the point of view of someone from Manhattan, sure, why not have some monster corporate headquarters sited in Long Island City? That would be of about as much concern to them as having had the world's largest landfill site on Staten Island.

Do I like AOC? Well, I certainly do not dislike her, although I do find her a bit brash. Anyway, I think that she's reasonably honest in her beliefs, practically a saint compared to Trump and that clique of lying, opportunistic ratbags that he has transformed most once-respectable Republicans into.

If you want to put it very, very simply, West Coast, then I do like her; you guessed wrong there. Yeah, I am behind her just as you really are behind Trump. (Not, as you are, wanting to have it both ways, backing someone somewhat abhorrent for tactical reasons, I think that AOC is a genuinely good person. If she turns into just another hack, or else a loser, then I shall be disappointed.)
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 13:54
  #18622 (permalink)  
 
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Deny, Dismiss, Deflect, etc.

Original post by West Coast
Hate her? Heavens no, I love her, she'sthe gift that keeps on giving. She's doing more damage to the democratic brand than anyone else. Shame she'll be gone so soon. Till then, the media has made her o e of the leading faces of your party. I dont even think Chuks likes her.

One of the reasons she'll be history is her opposition to Amazon. District polls show that, but you continue on about my travel destinations instead.
If you love her, you must hate Duncan Hunter, your Congressional District representative. But you don't even want to talk about him, rather deflect to the East Coast to go on and on about AOC. Think Duncan will get reelected for another term? How many felony counts has he been charged with? Now that his wife has pled guilty and will testify against him in Federal Court, do you think the Republican brand has been damaged? Duncan sounds pretty much like the folks Trump selects and doesn't bother vetting, Duncan might have a future working for Trump Inc in the end.

What I find interesting about your continued AOC harangue is your lack of knowledge of NY & NYC and its politics. You seemingly based your personal conclusion about AOC's future on the Siena poll that claimed the State of New York was in favor of Amazon locating in Long Island City. Do you know where Siena is located in New York State? It happens to be a northern suburb of Albany. Do you know what Albany is noted for? It is where the State Capital of the State of New York is located. Who is the Governor of the State of New York? Andrew Cuomo. Where was the clandestine decision concocted to approve the Long Island City as Amazon's location and reward Amazon with a $3 billion tax abatement package without even ever visiting Long Island City to determine what the residents really thought? It was in Albany, of course. If you were Governor of New York State, where would you get a favorable poll in favor of Amazon's preferred location and push your plan through? Siena of course or any other poll taken in New York State other than Long Island City.

AOC didn't screw up, she voiced her opinion based on her constituents input just as did the other Congressional Representative where the larger part of the proposed facility was to be located. Governor Cuomo screwed up, Fact is, NYC didn't need Amazon at a $3 billion tax payer paid ransom. But do keep us informed of your Congressional Rep's legal entanglement as his court date approaches...

Last edited by Turbine D; 21st Jun 2019 at 17:01. Reason: name correction
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 15:11
  #18623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
If you love her, you must hate Duncan Hunter, your Congressional District representative. But you don't even want to talk about him, rather deflect to the East Coast to go on and on about AOC. Think Duncan will get reelected for another term? How many felony counts has he been charged with? Now that his wife has pled guilty and will testify against him in Federal Court, do you think the Republican brand has been damaged? Duncan sounds pretty much like the folks Trump selects and doesn't bother vetting, Duncan might have a future working for Trump Inc in the end.

What I find interesting about your continued AOC harangue is your lack of knowledge of NY & NYC and its politics. You seemingly based your personal conclusion about AOC's future on the Siena poll that claimed the State of New York was in favor of Amazon locating in Long Island City. Do you know where Siena is located in New York State? It happens to be a northern suburb of Albany. Do you know what Albany is noted for? It is where the State Capital of the State of New York is located. Who is the Governor of the State of New York? Mario Cuomo. Where was the clandestine decision concocted to approve the Long Island City as Amazon's location and reward Amazon with a $3 billion tax abatement package without even ever visiting Long Island City to determine what the residents really thought? It was in Albany, of course. If you were Governor of New York State, where would you get a favorable poll in favor of Amazon's preferred location and push your plan through? Siena of course or any other poll taken in New York State other than Long Island City.

AOC didn't screw up, she voiced her opinion based on her constituents input just as did the other Congressional Representative where the larger part of the proposed facility was to be located. Governor Cuomo screwed up, Fact is, NYC didn't need Amazon at a $3 billion tax payer paid ransom. But do keep us informed of your Congressional Rep's legal entanglement as his court date approaches...

Love the consequence free universe you live in. Your girl is highly unpopular, one of the prime reasons was her support to deep six amazon. She'll pay for that soon. Then you'll only have your memories of AOC to comfort you.

As to Hunter, he's not conservative enough for my likes. There's a number of true conservatives starting to circle their prey. If he goes, we'll likely get a true conservative in his place. He is due his day in court however, as much as you've already tried and sentenced him.
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 15:28
  #18624 (permalink)  
 
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We are back to the same old thing: Chuks, TD, et al telling us who is the right or wrong person for the political job because they "like" or "dislike" them. Positions, policies, accomplishments? Nah, irrelevant.
Always about the "feelings", the outrages, and being offended.

An approach the Dems have milked forever, so they are incapable of understanding reality, especially when it comes from someone who doesn't live in their la-la land.
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 17:00
  #18625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 79
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Original post by West Coast
Love the consequence free universe you live in. Your girl is highly unpopular, one of the prime reasons was her support to deep six amazon. She'll pay for that soon. Then you'll only have your memories of AOC to comfort you.
She isn't my girl, she is the Congressional Representative of New York's 14th Congressional District. I don't live or vote in that district and assume you don't either. So neither of us are saying who is right or wrong for that District's Congressional position as your backup supporter, Obgraham, implies. Now the information you have provided about AOC must come from Conservative news sites, like Fox News. There are plenty of sites and people that disagree and there are viable reasons for that.

Nearly half of the people in New York’s 14th District are of Hispanic or Latino heritage. Less than a quarter of the overall U.S. population has such heritage.

With a 52% approval rating, AOC has a higher net favorability rating than any other major politician in her state, including Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Sen. Chuck Schumer, and Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand. She also had a slightly higher net favorability than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Siena poll found. AOC is better liked among people of color, young people, and women. While 64% of black and Latino voters approve of the 29-year-old lawmaker, just 45% of white voters view her favorably. The outspoken freshman lawmaker is well-known among her constituents, just 15% of them said they didn't have an opinion about her. In contrast, 38% of those polled said they didn't know enough to have an opinion about Ocasio-Cortez's predecessor, Joe Crowley, who held the seat for two decades. Ocasio-Cortez was also better known than Gillibrand, who's running for president.

On Fox News segments between January 1 and February 15 of this year, comparing the number of segments mentioning AOC to those focusing on at least one of the Democratic 2020 presidential candidates, AOC got more coverage on Fox News than any Democratic candidate save one, Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who is also a right-wing boogeywoman. AOC got significantly more Fox News coverage than fellow Democratic socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders.

It’s astonishing that a Democratic backbencher could get this much attention and get so famous at the beginning of her first term. It’s a testament to how much of a phenomenon she is on the Democratic left — and how much the right seems to both hate and fear her.

Much of the group that powered her victory has remained politically active, coming together to sink the Amazon deal and to push for further police reforms at City Hall. This group—well-educated, young and upwardly mobile could become a new force in city politics, one that operates outside of the traditional organizational lanes. “It’s all about the gentrifiers who don’t want to be gentrified,” said one Bronx-based political operative. “Her supporters come from newly formed community groups. They rally around issues, they don’t rally around neighborhoods and they don’t rally around neighborhood leaders.”

AOC resisted the notion that she killed Amazon “with two tweets,” as she put it, but in the first citywide election since she was sworn in, for the job of Public Advocate, the second-highest ranking post in the city, it was clear that AOC had bent the politics of the city. Throughout the campaign, all the candidates railed against the online retailer, and at debates all but one pledged to cease shopping from the website even though many of them too had previously signed a letter of support welcoming the company to the city.

Just some information you might not have known... And if you love AOC as a Conservative on the Right as you said, you must be an outlier.
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 19:03
  #18626 (permalink)  
 
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The rag-tag tag team is in action again!

OB, I think I made if reasonably clear that my positive view of AOC is not based on a simple "like" or "dislike." This is just another damn-fool challenge, this one from West Coast asking me to answer on the most basic of levels whether I like or dislike AOC. The truth is that I do not dislike her, but to digitize that answer makes it that I like her.

What is the problem you two have, anyway? You should be happy winning with Trump. Instead you are always picking at scabs. First it was that I simply had to tell my SATs, because I pointed out that if Trump let us see his that would show us whether or not he is the genius he claims to be. That turned something germane about Trump into something personal and rather pointless.

Now it is that I have to declare some simple-minded like or dislike for a politician. When it comes to politics there can be much more to it than that. Some people, it is true, are objects of a deep personal dislike: Richard Nixon, Roy Cohn, Joe McCarthy, Donald Trump, the Arkansas Lard Biscuit .... I can always come up with something objective to justify that dislike. On the other hand, even odious Nixon did manage to crank out a rather good portrait of David Douglas Duncan; I have to give him credit for that: https://www.google.com/search?q=davi...BN5X0VsSzYiFM:

The main thing is that I like the positions AOC has taken. Additionally she certainly comes across as more honest, thoughtful, and intelligent that Donald Trump. So what? We have magpies in our garden that also surpass Trump in those ways, and a goldfish in our garden fishpond with a longer attention span than his.

It is the Trump partisans who generally operate on this simple-minded like/dislike basis. Trump gets it wrong each and every day, not least with his persistent lies uttered at a rate of about ten per day. Yet he is liked, for no good reason. Liking him is enough for the sort of boobs who like him to like him, so that the harder any fact-based life forms attack this foolishness, the harder it goes back to work liking Trump. There he is, giving those who like him a good rooting while telling them how much he cares about them, our only real Americans ....
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 19:40
  #18627 (permalink)  
 
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Ob

“Always about the "feelings", the outrages, and being offended.”

Precisely what put the accidental president in the whitehouse!!

Gingrich laid out the realities of the game for all to see in this CNN interview.

Its all about “feelings” despite actual stats that dont support the “feelings”.

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Old 21st Jun 2019, 20:23
  #18628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Maybe, Chuks, if I heard something new from you once in a while on this thread, I could respond differently. However, despite raising your word count exponentially, you are still blowing the same old horn: "Orange Man Bad. Vote for him you are stupid and racist. Think like us or else."

When you have posted the same damn thing for three years, don't be surprised if the opposition repeats its critiques.

Look at these headlines today. The media can;t decide if they are mad at Trump for authorizing an attack on Iran, or mad at Trump for canceling an attack on Iran. So their outrage devolves to "there, he's indecisive".
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 21:42
  #18629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Uh-huh ....

OB, you do enjoy faking stances taken by those you disagree with, don't you? With this one you ignored my obvious objection to making this binary: like/dislike, pushing anything at all nuanced, somewhere in the middle, out to both edges instead. That is primitive and deeply stupid: truly Trumpian. It turns "don't dislike" into "like," when you clowns can then start chirping about how those against Trump and his foolish partisans are just so terribly, terribly emotional.

Meanwhile, if there is a rational basis for supporting Trump then I guess I must have missed that. Just look at the way Trump himself can only return to the same lying, damn-fool rhetoric from 2016; feel free to point out anything new.

If there was a reason for attacking Iran, then I suppose we should have done so. Instead we are presented with the spectacle of Trump ordering the attack but then stopping it at the last minute. Doesn't that hint that Trump had not worked out quite what he wanted to do there?

Attacking another country absent a declaration of war ... didn't we get all huffy when the Japs did that to us? It is not the sort of thing to be done lightly in such a start-stop way. "Ooh, look at me, waving my cocked and loaded gun around. Almost shot you, I did. Are you scared?"

Yes, Donald, we are scared, but not for the reason you think.

There was another example of what a dunce Trump is: It is "locked and loaded," from the manual of arms for the old M1 Garand rifle. Not even that the rifle was then ready to fire, just that the bolt had been locked back so that a clip of eight rounds had been loaded into the magazine. After that you would still need to release the bolt from its locked-open position to make the rifle ready to fire. Generations of ignoramuses have been shouting "Locked and loaded!" thinking that meant they were ready to unleash hell. All you might do with a locked and loaded M1 is to drop it on someone's foot, because it would not fire.

Moving right along, first you load a weapon, and then you cock it, so that the sequence would be "loaded and cocked." There is no point to cocking a weapon that had not already been loaded. Trump just messed up that old cliché, "locked and loaded," showing ignorance squared.

What if an aide had appeared at the critical moment with a nice, hot cheeseburger? "Get me the Pentagon on the line! No, wait .... Ooh, that smells too good to resist! Bring me a Diet Coke and give me five minutes alone in here with this cheeseburger. The call to the Pentagon will just have to wait."

"Yes, Mr. President, but the first salvo of Tomahawks is due to be launched in just three minutes."

"Yeah, sure. So what, now I have to eat fast? Anyway, gimme that Diet Coke and beat it. I will call when I am good and ready to call. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 22:34
  #18630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Yesterday Cheeto saved 150 Iranians from certain death...wants Nobel Peace prize now.

Last edited by jack11111; 21st Jun 2019 at 23:15.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 00:01
  #18631 (permalink)  
 
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You never disappoint, Chuks! The real questions of the day are what happened to the drone, who did it, why did they do it, and what should be done about it. Then we can discuss what the US did or did not do.

But you would rather devote ten paragraphs of childish insults to Trump's response process or lack of same, his twitterability, and his choice of words to make his points. Of course, by extension, you also suggest that anyone not fully engaged in the anti-Trumpian hate-fest shares in your derision.

No doubt you'll soon be here to tell us just how many prospective dead Iranians it took to dissuade Trump, and why that number is far too high, reflective of his obvious bias against Iran. There could be a typhoon in Bandar Abbas, the Marines could go in and save 1100 people, and you'd be mad that it wasn't 1120 and that was Trump's fault.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 02:05
  #18632 (permalink)  
 
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Thought the most important question is - exactly where it was shot down.
Aren't there 3 or so disputed islands in the immediate area?
Slap a 12 mile limit around each and maybe you've got a "Yes it is - No it's not" handbag fight a la South China Sea.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 02:35
  #18633 (permalink)  
 
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She isn't my girl, she is the Congressional Representative of New York's 14th Congressional District.
Does that bother you that I refer to her that way?
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 05:33
  #18634 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting mindsets ....

West Coast looked at this young woman in a position of power and called her a "girl." Someone seems to be bothered there. It can't be that West Coast is unable to tell the difference between a girl and a young woman, can it? (Expert tip: Always check for wisdom teeth before you make that signature move, "So, Baby, what's your sign? I'm a surfin' Sagittarius.")

What are you hinting at, West Coast? Should AOC be back there in Queens having girly tea parties for her dolls instead of running around Washington trying to do a man's job?

When it comes to shoot-downs it's going to be difficult to be terribly het up about the Iranians having shot down a US drone that might arguably have been in their airspace, not after we had shot down an Iranian A300 that certainly was not in our airspace. 290 people died then, leaving us without much standing to complain now.

I think it's pretty easy to find answers to OB's "real questions of the day [...] what happened to the drone, who did it, why did they do it, and what should be done about it."

What happened to the drone? It was shot down by a surface-to-air missile, a SAM.

Who did it? The Iranians did it. They said so and we believe them. How could you miss such an obvious fact?

Why did the Iranians shoot down our drone with a SAM? Well, OB, according to them, it was violating their airspace, when that had to have been a very, very close call. So they were "protecting their airspace," just on the face of it. My guess is that in addition they were calling Trump's bluff, when he blinked first.

What should be done about it? I think that by now we can make that "What should have been done about it?" Opinions may differ, but according to Trump he did what should have been done about it. That was to almost, but not quite, take military action against Iran, only stopping at the last minute to leave his rapt audience asking "What was that all about?"

All you Trump fans, please take a moment to remember what this ass-clown pretending to be a statesman last told Iran, that if they even made any more threats he was going to cause Iran to cease to exist. (Typical Trump, to meet threats with an extremely dire ... threat. Why not threaten to sue them, Donald? Get Michael Cohen to call them on the phone to .... No, Cohen can't make international calls from prison. Drat!)

So ... no more threats from Iran but action instead: two tankers attacked, with one set on fire; and now one of our drones blown out of the sky. And President Trump almost did something about this .... It's those bone spurs, again.

This situation calls for a cheeseburger and a Diet Coke ... comfort eating ....
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 05:55
  #18635 (permalink)  
 
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So last week you were all wadded up that Don was going to have us at war in two more days by threatening those Mad Mullah boys.

And now that wad is stuck even higher because he didn't and so the Mullah lads are winning.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 06:48
  #18636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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OB, you guys like Trump for the way he's so very, very butch: "I'll bomb the sh*t out of ISIS," all that sort of thing, so much tougher than wimpish Obama. So, what did your Action Man do? Nothing except to bluster, right? (I had a fellow tell me once about how angry he had been at someone, so that he "almost hit him!" I thought to myself, "My goodness! I am almost impressed.")

OB, you need to try harder to keep more than one thing in mind at once. It is this combination of extremely bellicose rhetoric with lack of action that I am complaining about here, not that Trump merely failed to carry through with his threats against Iran.

If Trump had anyone highly capable of that, diplomacy would probably be the best option, but if one claims to prefer military force, as Trump does claim to, then one had better carry through with that to some degree. Someone in a bar who leads off with "I am going to kick your ass!" is going to have a hard time to then switch to sweet reason; that is obvious. Not to Trump, but still obvious ....

Here we see Trump, a failure at checkers, going up against the gang that have been playing chess for about 1400 years, with predictable results.

A couple of minor points:

There was an attack on tankers out in the Gulf of Oman. Trump's response? More troops! So, Donald, are these troops real good swimmers, or what? A nautical threat calls for a nautical response.

Our drone was in "international waters," according to Trump. No, dummy, a ship would be in international waters, floating; our drone was claimed to have been in international airspace, flying.

It is a tough trick to pull off, but Trump has managed to make this gang of religious fanatics ruling Iran look pretty darn smooth, merely by contrast.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 13:21
  #18637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Trump confirms he called off retaliatory Iran attack ‘10 minutes before the strike’

"... I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not ... proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world," Trump said.

But then,



Trump ordered up mass arrests for reelection purposes.

President Trump has directed U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to conduct a mass roundup of migrant families that have received deportation orders, an operation that is likely to begin with predawn raids in major U.S. cities on Sunday, according to three U.S. officials with knowledge of the plans.

The “family op,” as it is referred to at ICE and the Department of Homeland Security, is slated to target up to 2,000 families facing deportation orders in as many as 10 U.S. cities, including Houston, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles and other major immigration destinations, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the law enforcement operation. Some within DHS and ICE say the president appears to be using the operation for political purposes as he begins his reelection bid.

Couple these two events together and it would seem Trump cares more about the wellbeing of ~150 Iranians than the wellbeing of 2,000 immigrant families living and working in the US for years, illegal or not. But, Trump probably never gave a thought linking the two events with his impulsive decision making. As usual, Trump is all about Trump...
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 13:28
  #18638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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West Coast,
She isn't my girl, she is the Congressional Representative of New York's 14th Congressional District.
Does that bother you that I refer to her that way?
No it doesn't bother me at all, you can refer to her however you want. I was just pointing out the difference between your fictionalism and actual realism...
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 16:46
  #18639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Age: 79
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Iran Calls Trump’s Bluff

Hmm, I wonder what Trump's real plan is if he has one or is he just winging it as usual?

Wall Street Journal Editorial Board published in the 6/22/19 print edition

The President is caught between hawkish goals and dovish means.

President Trump called off a military strike against Iran in mid-mission Thursday, and his supporters and even some of his critics are hailing it as an act of restraint and courage. The question for American interests is whether Iran and other adversaries will see it instead as a sign of weakness and indecision.

It’s important to understand how extraordinary this is. The Commander in Chief ordered ships and planes into battle but recalled them because he hadn’t asked in advance what the damage and casualties might be? While the planes were in the air, he asked, oh, by the way? This is hard to take at face value.

More likely, he changed his mind because he had second thoughts about the military and political consequences of engaging in a conflict he promised as a candidate to avoid. Mr. Trump may have saved Iranian lives now, but his indecision and professed fear of casualties may be risking more American lives later.

Squeezed by the U.S. “maximum pressure” campaign, Iran’s rulers are trying to pressure Mr. Trump in return. In recent weeks they have attacked oil pipelines, mined oil tankers, and this week brazenly shot down a $130 million U.S. drone monitoring shipping lanes over international waters. Iran’s bet is that Mr. Trump is so averse to military confrontation that he will ease U.S. sanctions. On the evidence of the aborted mission, they may be right.

The damage from Mr. Trump’s stand-down depends in part on how Iran’s leaders respond. If they agree to talks to revise the 2015 nuclear agreement, the restraint might pay off. Yet Iran’s leaders have shown no interest in talking as long as U.S. sanctions are in place. If Mr. Trump eases sanctions to get Iran to the bargaining table, he is back to the Obama nuclear deal.

On the other hand if the Iranians escalate again, Mr. Trump’s restraint will look misguided and weak. If Americans are now killed by Iranian proxies, his failure to use force to deter attacks will deserve some of the blame.

Laying out these potential stakes isn’t “war mongering,” as the new isolationists on the right claim. This is the reality of geopolitics in which credibility is crucial to deterrence. The more that adversaries think Mr. Trump’s threats of force aren’t credible, the more they will seek to exploit that knowledge.

After Barack Obama failed to enforce his “red line” in Syria in 2013, adversaries soon took advantage. Vladimir Putin snatched Crimea from Ukraine and moved into Syria, China pushed further into the South China Sea, and Iran expanded its proxy wars in the Middle East. Will they draw similar license now from Mr. Trump’s stand-down?

The great weakness of Donald Trump’s foreign policy is its volatility. He is unpredictable to a fault. He has doubted his own Venezuela policy from the first week he signed off on it. He called Kim Jong Un crazy but now says he’s a swell guy. He signed a trade deal with Mexico then threatened it with new tariffs.

On Iran he has adopted a policy goal favored by hawkish Sen. Lindsey Graham but wants to use only the means of isolationist Sen. Rand Paul to achieve it. He warned that “if Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran,” but he lets Iran shoot down a drone and interfere with international shipping.

If Mr. Trump’s real policy is Mr. Paul’s, then he should be honest with Americans and return to the Obama nuclear deal. In the meantime, Iran appears to be calling Mr. Trump’s bluff.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 04:01
  #18640 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Trump seems to believe in a very strange tactic because he has just used it twice in close succession. He goes to the brink of doing something not fully thought-out but then pulls back at the last minute. Then he expects praise for showing restraint by not doing that impulsive thing he said he was going to do, and even began to do.

Trump threatened to expel "millions" of illegal migrants as his latest campaign promise. That turned into perhaps 2,000 of them, and then, suddenly, the number dropped to zero, Trump waiting for joint action on migration by Republicans and Democrats instead.

Just before that, things got really weird with Iran. First we were going to eradicate Iran if they so much as threatened us. Trump's own threat was backed by positioning a carrier group nearby, so "serious stuff."

Iran called Trump's bluff, when he backed down at the last minute from an attack in retaliation for their shoot-down of one of our expensive drones. What he did instead was to zig-zag between more threats, but also praise for Iran not shooting down a P-8, ending for now with a weird promise to "Make Iran great again," as if it were within his power to do that.

What, Donald, you are going to give Iran new aluminum siding? "Yes, and vinyl storm windows too!"

Trump is all over the map here, showing himself to be completely unpredictable by his own public statements. We already had a deal with Iran, except that it had been worked out by the Obama Administration, along with our international partners. Trump ripped that one up and now he somehow expects Iran to come back and negotiate another deal about the same as the one Trump, not Iran, backed out of.

The point for Trump seems to be that this should be a deal between Iran and Trump personally, except that he has shown himself to be completely undependable. There are far too many examples of how a Trump promise is worthless, plus here he's dealing with a nation led by people who have very strong religious motivation. Not that it is 100% correct to hold to some literally medieval version of Islam, just that the leadership of Iran really does do that.

On our side, it should be clear to Trump, as it is to plenty of his fellow Americans, that his approach to ruling is dysfunctional. Trump's approach to life, what produced a long series of failures and scandals that was just part of the Trump brand before his freak election, is now producing real serious trouble for the world as a whole.

Trump, being Trump, is not going to learn from any of this; he is not going to change in a profound way and rise to the obligations of his high office. (Not even his tiny fan club here expect Trump to change. They are happy to expect him to remain just as annoying as ever because that is what they like to see, that annoyance he causes to people they simply dislike.)

Like a chameleon, Trump can cycle through a limited spectrum of colors, from orange for everyday wear to bright red when cornered by a question about something naughty he has been up to, but whatever color he assumes he is still just a scaly little lizard. He can "act presidential," reading in his stumbling way off a teleprompter when he chooses to, but it is clear that with Trump that is just an act. At heart he still is the little grifter from Queens he began as.

Last edited by chuks; 23rd Jun 2019 at 04:22.
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